Noisy Piston Springs

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 1:38 pm

I just replaced my Yamaha piston springs and am noticing extra noise when I press down the valves. It sounds like there's something loose but everything has been screwed on tight. Any idea what it could be and how to fix it?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:44 pm

Are ALL of the pistons making more noise than before?

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:50 pm

Yes. There is definate improvment in how the valves feel but they make this noise which they didn't do before. These are brand new Yamaha springs as well.

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:52 pm

I have also made sure everything in lined up correctly inside. The sound is still there.

tubaman5150 · Post by **tubaman5150** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:11 pm

Here's a tip on how to maintain alignment. Before oiling, make sure the valves are more or less perpendicular to the floor so they're pointing straight up and down. After reinsurting the valve, rotate it a couple of times then lift and lower the valve and tighten the cap. The helps line up the spring with the valves and prevents it from binding or touching against the valve casing (also evenly distributes the oil).

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:41 pm

Will wrote:I have also made sure everything in lined up correctly inside. The sound is still there.

Did you change anything besides the springs? Perhaps what you are hearing now is a bit more noise out of the felts, corks, and valve guides. If the springs feel a bit stiffer to you, then they are also impacting the felts and corks more when they return. Also, the piston trys to turn as it is pressed and tries to rotate the opposite direction when it is released. The result is the key strikes the sides of the keyslot. A little noise is natural but I'll bet you need to replace your felts and corks. Also, the valve guides might be a little worn.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:01 pm

you could try coating the ends of the springs in vaseline, or parrafin wax.
ken k

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:26 pm

One thing that I do to reseat the valve springs is unscrew the bottom cap a bit until I feel & hear the spring reseat itself. Then I screw it back down, and the springs don't make noise anymore (or at least not so much).

It's a lot easier to do than to take the piston out, make sure the valve is completely vertical, and carefully reinsert the piston.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:36 am

B&H/Besson use valve spring dampers on their euphs and tubas, one size for euphs and one for tubas, at least from the Sovereign models and up.

I don't know the precise English term, but they are sort of synthetic washers cum disks with a contour intended to grab the spring.

They sit in the bottom valve caps plus in the bottom cavity of the pistons.

One of the problems with good springs is, that they take up their own existence of vibration generators both when they are compressed and when they are released.

The valve spring dampers prevent these vibrations from being resonated by the tuba itself.

I was first introduced to the valve dampers, when I got my Besson 981. I liked them enough to buy sets for my York Master and Conn BBb's.

They fit less perfectly there than in the 981, but still they work perfectly.

Yamaha takes another approach with their plastic coated springs. Very effective, as long as the springs can maintain their virginity. But the real life confrontation with valve oil and condensations of human evaporations tends to make the coating peel.

Klaus

Rick F · Post by **Rick F** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:38 am

Klaus wrote:Yamaha takes another approach with their plastic coated springs. Very effective, as long as the springs can maintain their virginity. But the real life confrontation with valve oil and condensations of human evaporations tends to make the coating peel.

I like the plastic coated springs on my Yamaha 641 euph. It helps make for quiet valves. I find I need to replace them about once a year because of the plastic coating eventually coming loose.

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:57 am

Rick F wrote:I like the plastic coated springs on my Yamaha 641 euph. It helps make for quiet valves. I find I need to replace them about once a year because of the plastic coating eventually coming loose.

Basically we are in agreement, when you refer to the shortlivedness of the Yamaha valve-spring-plastic-coat (and about the validity of the YEP641 as a musical tool we agree unconditionally).

But with 25+ piston springs alone in the low conical brass field, I certainly wouldn't like to replace them all once a year.

The B&H/Besson valve-spring- dampers perform their intended function at least on par with the Yamaha coated springs. And then they excell in longevity. Plus: as they don't shed flakes, they are less likely to induce out-of-the-blue embarrassments in form of a choking piston.

Klaus