TubeNet

bluemusic1 wrote:A friend of mine is trying to sell his Benge trumpet that he has had for a long time. It was made, I believe, back in the late 60's and just wanted to get some feedback on whether it was worthless or not. I know Benge made terrible trombones but I dont know much about their trumpets.

terrible trombones????

Actually the Benge trumpets made then were made by the original Benge company. Sorry, I can't tell you much about them.

Eventually, UMI bought Benge out. Later when UMI designed the Benge trombones in the 80's, they patterned them largely after Kings. Since UMI already owned the rights to the Benge name they simply used the name for their new line of bones. There is no conncection to the original Benge company other than the name.

UMI designed the horns as Kings to market to the classical players. Kings have such a tradition in the jazz market they figured that classical players wouldn't buy Kings. Hence the use of the Benge name, which had a pretty good reputation in the classical genre.

Actually I own three of them (190C, 175F and 290 bass)and enjoy their tone. Much more reponsive than Bachs but a little more core than Conns due to annealed bells. They sort of split the difference. They also use oversized rotor sections (this was the days before thayer valves were public domain) and blow incredibly free and open.

I know I did not really answer your trumpet question but just felt I had to address the terrible trombone comment.

ken k

If your friend has one of the orginal "Burbank Benge" trumpets, meaning that it was made when the Benge factory was located in Burbank, Ca, it was most likely an excellent quality horn. The original horns were very well thought of. I know several of my college classmates (early 70's) played them as did many of the pros in LA at the time.

I believe that the marking on the bell should include Burbank, CA.

http://www.whc.net/rjones/brassrsc.html

Look around on this list and you may find a link with more info.

Here's a little history........

http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/Benge.html

"Taken from Benge's last (and only ?) catalog distributed in November, 1969"

Greg wrote:If I am not mistaken, the Benge trumpets are pretty good quality beginner instruments. When he sells it, I would advertise to band directors with beginning band programs in the area.

This statement would not be applicable to a Benge trumpet made in the 1960's. Your friend probably has a Benge 3X which was, I believe, the most popular model. There are other models, all ending with X.

Old Benge's currently have an avid following, limited mostly to big band trumpters. From my experience they were too bright for most high school band use but for a jazz horn in a big band... it's a keeper.

Easy to play and, once learned, great for screamin' trumpet parts. Intonation was tricky, as I remember.

I cannot guide you on current values.

Might get more quality answers on a trumpet forum.

I know a good player who uses a Benge for jazz/big band because of the brighter sound, and his trusty Bach for band/orchestra/quintet because it's darker.

Benge trumpets made when Eldon Benge was actually alive are some of the finest trumpets ever made.

The lead trumpet player for the Les Brown Band (grandson of the original Les Brown leads the band) plays one and blows everything else out of the water it sounds so good.

Those made after sell out to UMI which as eventually assimlated by the cyborg I would be wary of, as some are very good and others are not.

My trumpet teacher in 1954-56 was Robert Fleming, lead trumpet in the Disney Studio orchestra and free lancer at other studios. (He was lead trumpet in the Todd A-O production of "Oklahoma" with Shirley Jones and Gordan McCrae.) His trumpet was an early Benge, probably from the Burbank era. He told me that almost all the Hollywood film studio players were using Benge trumpets.

The first Benges were knockoffs of the legendary prewar "Frech" Bessons (with the MEHA medallion on the bell) and were very sought after, especially by big band players as previously stated. Benge was later bought by King (pre-UMI) and built in Ohio alongside the Kings. Their most notable contribution was the "3X+" Claude Gordon model. I used to sell these like candy in the late 70s - early 80s because they were so free- blowing and centered.

Some years ago, I bought a used Burbank picc trumpet (serial # 1309) that said this on the bell: "The Burbank Trumpet, 1122 W. Burbank Blvd., Burbank, CA USA." I was curious as to when and where it was built so I called Zig Kanstul and learned it was made in Fullerton CA in June 1987. This was a long time after the shop in Burbank shut down.

Rummaging through some files, I came across this:

"Kanstul After Benge.
Kanstul quit working with UMI/Benge around 1979, before the closing of the Benge Anaheim facility and worked for G.C.Conn (also part of the UMI conglomerate) supervising and inspecting Conn's various manufacturing facilities. In 1981, shortly before UMI moved the Benge production east, Kanstul was opening his own shop about 15 minutes away in a different location, sharing space with a motorcycle accessories plant. Later Kanstul moved to Fullerton into his own (owned or leased) building and started making horns for Boosey and Hawkes. Later, Kanstul made copies of the Benge line and called it The Burbank Trumpet. This was when he was in Fullerton and had nothing to do with a Burbank location, although the old Benge address on Burbank Ave was stamped on the bell (don't ask me why---but the Kanstul made F. Bessons had the original French bell hallmark including Made in Paris on the bell, too). These horns were copies of the classic Benge horns and are great horns. Production of The Burbank has never been very large but the horns are well made and play well. Donald Benge was involved for a while, but Zig eventually bought him out."

Sorry, tuba players. I know this thread must be a yawner.

My one experience with a Benge trumpet was the time a trumpeter in a jazz band handed me his-claiming it was the best.
It played nice but the volume topped out. I blew harder but there was a point where the Benge would simply get no louder.
I played a big bore Olds Ambassador six nights a week in a rock band with electric guitars and the Olds (cheap horn) had no upper volume limit.
I had no use for the Benge.

bloke wrote: Most people agree that the "Burbank" (Donald Benge) instruments from the '80's-'90's are better than the Eastlake, Ohio Benge instruments.

This is mostly good information but comparing the UMI Benge trumpet and the Eldon Benge trumpet is like comparing apples and tubas. They couldn't be more dissimilar and still be trumpets.

The original posters problem (in my view) is that he knew nothing about Benge trumpets and had advice that it might be a good intermediate or school horn, close to a junker. In fact, his friend's trumpet is a great pro jazz horn with some real potential value.

I know I was selling Benge trumpets distributed (built?) by King in the late 70s (1977 and later). At the time, as I recall, UMI was nowhere to be found either in the branding or sales literature. My impression was that King was "independent" at least until 1980. Was it just that the drugs hadn't worn off, or am I right?

That's about right, before eventual assimilation by the cyborg.

A Chicago trumpet player has done extensive research on Elden Benge and his Chicago trumpets. Here's the link:

http://www.musicbyjoelill.com/benge/index.htm

One of the houses where Benge lived and made trumpets, at his kitchen table, still stands a few blocks from my house.