TubeNet

Good question.Bravo...I have no idea,but i look forward to the responses.

from the tuba family by Clifford Beaven

“During the early part of the 20th century American orchestras, also drawing on band practice, often adopted tubas in Eb or BBb. German musicians who played in the newly formed American orchestras made the F tuba popular, and American manufacturers such as King began producing German-style tubas. Later in the century the contrabass in CC was adopted in the USA.â€

While I know that there were F tubas in use earlier in the 20th century, I always associate Dan Perantoni with the growth in use of F tubas in the states. It seems to me the F went from an optional accessory to a required tool for serious players in the 1980s.

All I know is that when I was "on the circuit" as a young player, Dan's guys showed up with F tubas, played the snot out of them, and won the jobs. For some reason, that made a lasting impression!

were the traditional f tuba pieces done on CC until the '80s?

There was one in my great, great grandfather's (Christof Bach) orchestra in Milwaukee in the 1850's & 60's. I have also seen old 19th century "Pennsylvania Dutch" (actually Germans) photos of small musical groups with "Moritz-like" very early tubas. These were made in F and Eb both, presumably.

Remember... The first tubas were pitched in F... So, I would guess that the first tubas to make it to America were F tubas, probably sometime in the late 1830s to mid 1840s... maybe earlier... (They were first made in 1835, which I hope you all know already!)

I did find this back in the archives: http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/jun2003 ... 37892.html . I seem to remember (from more recent posts) that Bill Bell recorded the VW on an F back in the '50's.

bloke wrote:

MikeMason wrote:were the traditional f tuba pieces done on CC until the '80s?

In the later '70's, I played stuff like Halsey Stevens' Sonatina, the Vaughan Williams, Wilder (suites - solo/trio/etc.), Hartley works (Concertino w/band...Concerto w/percussion...etc.) on a Mirafone 184 CC.

I did the same. Even though I regularly used an Eb and euphonium for band pieces, doing otherwise just didn't occur to me at the time...

OldsRecording wrote:I did find this back in the archives: http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/jun2003 ... 37892.html . I seem to remember (from more recent posts) that Bill Bell recorded the VW on an F back in the '50's.

The horn (a 4v F, can't recall the make) that he premiered that piece on in the US was sold either here or on eBay in the last year or two. I believe it came with some kind of documentation.

Eric

They came by ship, hiding in bunches of bananas from the Caribbean. They were introduced to the southern states first, but gradually began to work their way northward...

Rumor has it Bobo found one hiding in his luggage in Tulsa and the rest is history!

Bill Bell's F tuba was custom-made for him by King, but I don't remember when.
K. Vinal Smith did play a Kruspe F tuba with the Boston Symphony. I read that the guy who was there before him (Adams) played a small BBb tuba.

I love when you can feel the fun coming...

Thread, prepare to move to off topic, followed by a lock.

Bob1062 wrote:So Bill Bell's King F was a 4 valve.

I believe I have seen a picture of Vidal Smith with a 4 rotary valve F.

Did they do what I think they did but am too afraid to mention?

Vinal Smith...

I just can't imagine a satisfying result on the really low loud stuff on that horn.I guess i should try to find some recordings and listen for myself...

MikeMason wrote:I just can't imagine a satisfying result on the really low loud stuff on that horn.I guess i should try to find some recordings and listen for myself...

If I remember correctly, Kilton Vinal Smith was also a bass bone player, and only played the tuba when the piece called for one. I could be wrong on that.

I also think that the concepts of tone, blend, and volume have changed considerably since KVS's day. You're probably exactly right- that horn wouldn't cut in an orchestra these days (for most things). It just wouldn't have the headroom. Kind of makes me wonder, though, if all of the tone, blend, and volume changes have been good for us . . .

Bob1062 wrote:Too bad, this coulda been a good topic.

This was doomed to head in the direction it was going. Why? Because you asked the effects, and not the cause.

The first tubas were in F. Because they were in F, the French chose C.

Either one is a orchestral, or military usage.

As land opened up in America, "common people" (gad, even schoolchildren) took up usage of the tuba.

Bb being the people's key, instruments developed along the lines of the British Brass Band movement. Thus came the Eb. Why? Because you don't have a difficult transposition when moving your 3rd trumpet to a tuba part. Nor do you need that big a horn.

In the cities, symphonies first used F, then C tubas. But people like ol' C.G. Conn didn't need much to make it obvious to them that you weren't going to get rich in providing the odd F or CC in a lifetime that a symphony player needed. There's gold in them thar' Eb's!

And a WHOLE lot more bands than orchestras.

Even the Germans (originator of das F) went to BBb's. Why? 'Cause there's SO many more of them.



So the question isn't key, it's the usage.

My predecessor in the Ballet Orchestra used his BBb for everything; that included the VW Concerto, Rite of Spring Recordings with SSO. . .

On an unrelated note, congratulations to Rick (my predecessor):

http://www.tacoma.k12.wa.us/newsroom/Ne ... sp?ID=2135" target="_blank

Bob1062 wrote:So Bill Bell's King F was a 4 valve.

I believe I have seen a picture of Vidal Smith with a 4 rotary valve F.

Did they do what I think they did but am too afraid to mention?

Bob, I don't follow...what are you afraid they did? Add a valve to Bell's horn? I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

What, man, WHAT??

eupher61 wrote:

Bob1062 wrote:So Bill Bell's King F was a 4 valve.

I believe I have seen a picture of Vidal Smith with a 4 rotary valve F.

Did they do what I think they did but am too afraid to mention?

Bob, I don't follow...what are you afraid they did? Add a valve to Bell's horn? I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

What, man, WHAT??

Don't get him started on the whole false tones thing again . . .

. . . We just got him convinced to buy a horn with the proper number of valves . . .