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Since adding a 5th valve is about $1,500, I'm considering having a custom 4th valve slide constructed on my Miraphone 186 CC 4U instead. I want it to be long enough to tune all of the low notes and make low C#/Db attainable. What would be the approximate cost of doing it with the kicker? What would be the approximate cost of doing it without the kicker? A PM or email might be the best way to communicate with me.

Thanks.

Bob1062 wrote:I don't see how a kicker would work.


The best thing to do might be to have it looking kinda like a trombone handslide (crook pointing up) and just use your left hand. You wouldn't have to worry about going back and forth between the 1st and 4th slides since you'd use the 4th for ALL your low register needs.

Have you PLAYED a 186? The fourth valve slide is already like that.

Ralph

TexTuba wrote:Have you PLAYED a 186?

How are the false tones?

Eric B wrote:I'm considering having a custom 4th valve slide constructed on my Miraphone 186 CC 4U instead

Sorry Bob, that WAS the point of the thread.

Which one are you on?

My horn is one of the newer ones with the 4th slide on the back side of the horn by itself, so the kicker is not at all necessary. It is a long pull that drops the pitch 1/2 step. When I pull 1st and 4th together, I can hit the D, but I have had no success on the Db. I'll try Elephant's 2-3 false tone fingering. I may agree that this is not worth the cost as I would never recover the money if I sell. But that depends upon the cost of a simple custom made 4th slide that would give me a very flat whole step. Does anybody know what it would cost to have such a slide custom made?

I can't afford a new horn right now. I have just never been satisfied with the low range on the 186. I was tickled with my sound on the 1291 which tells me its not just the player. If I had the money, I would just go out and get a 1291 or 1292 (or maybe a 188) and be done with it!

I have an old (serial 66xx) BBb 2 piece Miraphone with 4 valves. The 4th valve is slide is under the top bow and is not very long, unlike the 3rd. I have the third valve slide waay out, the 2nd and 1st out a little and the 4th as far as it will go. 1-3 and 1-2-3 are very close to being in tune with this setup as well as 1-4 for the low Eb. I push the first valve in for the 5th partial and pull way out for the 1-2-3-4 for the low C. On this horn I use the 3rd valve alone for the false tone low B. THis works OK for Trad Jazz and Dance band work, which is all I do any more. I used a similar setup on a YEB-321 Eb many years ago and it worked well enough for quintet work.

Elephant,

Thank you for your incite. I didn't understand the complexities involved with the 4th valve loop. That would be an enormous undertaking, so it is completely understandable why nobody was willing to throw out even a rough estimate.

I just got a PM from a professional musician who lurks "below the radar" on TubeNet . He concurred that reworking of the 4th valve loop is not worth the effort or expense. He did have another solution. He suggested, to get the C#, I could have a longer third valve slide made that would lower the third valve by an additional 1/2 step. That combined with a long pull on the 4th should get a low C#. He said that Bill Rose, ret. Houston Symphony, played a 4 valve 186 with this configuration. On the downside, I would have to relearn some fingerings .

to be honest, how often is that lowest C# actually used?

I can't think of any band literature, much less orchestra, or even solo or quintet that has that specific note.

More the value of having a 5th valve, or an extendable 4th valve as described, is alternates for other lower range pitches, as well as the occasionally useful higher alternates as well.

That said, my guess is about equal money either way!

I've often wondered about a 321 euph/Eb style valve, dependent on the 4th. Almost did it for my old Piggy, but sold it instead.