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If jazz is your main stay and you like the B flat (like I do) it is hard to beat the Mirafone 1291. Big enough to be heard in any situation, and not so big as to be overpowering. Plus, the valves are great (pistons). However the new kings are wonderful horns for the jazz ggi also, but I like the piston action better on the 1291.

my .02

I have to concur with the Miraphone 1291 recommendation. For the price, it can't be beat. I'd almost say it can't be beat at all. The rotary 191 is great as well.

I concur with the Miraphone 1291 comments. I have liked any of them that I have tried. I also agree with your thoughts about trying one of the Howard Johnson model Meinl-Westons. I haven't tried them, but Matt had good things to say about them. Since you are in NYC I believe a trip across the river to Woodbridge, NJ is probably all you need to find a horn that fits your needs.

The MW 11 is a great little horn. I was looking for one a year ago, even Matt at that time said he rarely saw them. Figures, NOW he gets one.

That was the first tuba I owned, first upright I'd played, etc. I probably shouldn't have sold it, but at the time a great Piggy was available and I was changing to CC anyway, all the usual things.

But, I played a friend's MW 11 in the past couple of years and REALLY wanted one again. Couldn't find it, and I'm even happier with the Weril 680. Valve slides on the 680 are all easily accessible, but I never need to move them.

I think you got some of the same answers elsewhere, Sam! lol

Dave M wrote:Would this be a possibility?

http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... B-321.aspx

I've never played one, but I've played next to a couple of 'em, and I get the impression they're underappreciated. I also get the impression that Yamahas tend to inspire polarized opinions.

I think Dillon Music (Matt Walters) or Baltimore Brass (David Fedderly) are closest to NYC having tuba expertise and good inventories.

http://www.baltimorebrass.net/index.php?cat=5

Cheers,
Dave

if you can find one of the older yamaha 321's it'd be worth the money. The older one's have metal valve guides and seem all together better then any new one that I've played, The older one's i've played have never gotten stuck (valve action). The newer Yamaha's that my school bought are just horrible, they are constantly getting stuck valves even if you oil regularly. I would get an old one (for myself)

It sounds to me like the MW Hojo is exactly what you're describing.Especially when you said you prefer top action valves.Roger Lewis at the Tubadome has them and I'm sure would send you one to try.They are really good horns...

the elephant wrote:
I would also look at the new King 2341 as a GREAT value for a BBb tuba with a good tone and technique for jazz work. But these are less consistent and sometimes need some valve work when new. However, if you can play several in one sitting to make comparisons you can get a nice one and any valve work that might be needed is usually very minor. They are good playing tubas.

From casual lookin' around, Baltimore Brass has the cheapest price at $3995 for the 2341. I would think that David Fedderly wouldn't let one out the door with valve problems or some other kind of quality control thing. They have the tools right on site to make sure your horn is as good as it can be.

If you want a King and are comfortable with a King, contact Dan Schultz, aka tubatinker, on this very forum:
http://www.thevillagetinker.com

He has done work for me. His reputation is of the highest, and he advertises of having a number of King tubas.

BTW: Wick still makes the smaller shank as a stock item. Have you tried a Wick 3 in your Besson?

A friend of mine who plays mainly bass bone doubles on a Meinl-Weston 11: upright valves, smaller bore, easy to navigate, does really well with a Wick 3L mouthpiece, so that you can have the same mouthpiece rim and cup for both your Besson and a Meinl-Weston 11. I believe there is a used one right now at Dillon Music:

http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Pr ... 75443.aspx

Call Matt Walters at Dillion Music. He is a tuba player, designer, repair man and all around good guy. If anybody can give you straight advice and match you up with a horn new or used that works for you and fits your budget it would be Matt. His contact info is below:

Tuba Specialist
Dillon Music, Inc.
325 Fulton Street
Woodbridge, NJ 07095
(732) 634-3399 phone
(732) 634-4932 fax
www.dillonmusic.com

I have done the cut down Schilke with a Besson thing that you are currently using. I would highly recommend you at least give front action pistons a try. I think you will find it a much easier to play set up versus top action and one that you will readily be able to play. I have one of the new King 2341's and it is an excellent player for small jazz ensembles. Several pros are using this horn for jazz like Andy of the Dixie Power Trio. Matt at Dillion's also has parts to improve the valves (smoother/faster/quieter). Another BBb that folks like Eli Newberger use for jazz is the Harvey Philips Holton model.

Disclaimer: I have no interest in Dillion's other than being a very satisfied customer.