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Don't count on it. String players are to be endured. We are just the smelly things that inhabit the back row.

Next thing you know, robotic strummers will come around.

k001k47 wrote:Next thing you know, robotic strummers will come around.

Actually had one in a midi rig about 12 years ago. Not as useful as I thought it would be.

But here's the thing...an A is not an A is not an A.

Is it in the 3rd of the major chord?
Is it the leading tone function?
Is it the 7th of a Mm7?
Is it an altered pitch in a melodic line?

All of those things and more influence where in "the world of A" you actually place the pitch. We all do it without really thinking about it. But a robot tuner doesn't have the human judgment to make those determinations.

You can invent a tuner that will put A exactly at 440 every single time, never miss. And the tuning will be wrong half the time.

All the little black dots tell you is what note name the pitch is closest to (and therefore which button to mash) and how it functions in the overall scheme of the music. The actual pitch is determined by your ears.

Hey MileMaker...

Using Just Intonation, if you're in the key of G and everything stays in that key, all A's will be in the same position, regardless of whether it's a ii, diminished vii, V, or iii7 in any inversion.

Theoretically you could tune an instrument "justly" but it will only play "justly" in a predetermined key.

*Thank you graduate school for making learn the truth about Just Intonation, and thanks to Steve Colley for provide the explanation.

ThomasP wrote: Theoretically you could tune an instrument "justly" but it will only play "justly" in a predetermined key.

Hence the advent of Equal-temperament...

exactly why we've developed a system where every note is equally out of tune...

The point I was making is that in Just Intonation, the position of a pitch is not determined by its placement in a chord but rather by its position in a specific scale/key.

Hey Tuben...

You coming to band tonight, will you remember to bring the EEb?

We can discuss more before, during, or afterward...

In this discussion of tunings and temperaments we should keep in mind that these apply to fixed-pitch instruments, like keyboard instruments. They have to be tuned in some sort of compromise to suit the music being played. Equal temperament tuning is the modern compromise, although there's a lot not to like about it.

Fretted string instruments are nominally fixed-pitch instruments, especially in the hands of less experienced players. Good players will vary how much force they use pressing on strings and sometimes pull them a little tighter when stopping them, in order to vary pitch, and thus be in tune. Still, players of modal music will retune their guitars for each key and mode they are to play in.

Wind instruments and non-fretted string instruments all can vary their pitch at least a little -- enough to bend a note to be exactly in tune for the scale or chord position of the note. This allows us to play much more in-tune than keyboard instruments (and typical electronic tuners). It also allows lesser players to play much less in-tune than keyboard instruments!

Of course, tuba players simply play in tune -- they are well beyond the keyboard concept of temperament. I do have that right, don't I?

Cheers,
Allen

The robot can get very close to perfect pitch and is mostly aimed at professionals who have to change tuning a lot--not to tone-deaf people.

Ohhhhhhhh well. That leaves out the vola section...

String sections in tune? Physical impossibility, too many factors

Three words: Russian string sections. Heard The Kirov Orchestra this past weekend; I think it's safe to say that the string section played in tune. Very in tune.

I can imagine now...
"Automatic perfect intonation robot."

untTuba06 wrote:I think the article mentions that the tuner is really for studio guitarists that use multiple tunings. I know Slide gutiarist GOD Sunny Landreth has a Gibson Les Paul retrofitted with a device close to this, really it's main use is to change between Standard tuning (EADGBE),open G major (DGDGBD), open D (DADF#AD). It can automatically switch between them with fair accuracy which is handy for studio guys so they don't have to carry around four or five guitars all day.

Or maybe, for that same effect, the technology Fender and Roland use with their VG Strat can be applied? Has anyone used the VG Strat and can vouch for it?

as soon as I can convince the viola section that "frets are a good thing". I'm working on it. Being the great thinkers that they are, the viola section should be the easiest to win over.
Roger

William Parlier wrote:It would be hard to make an orchestral string player play in tune without the frets

I don't think you see what we're actually doing... just making fun of orchestral string players! (It's not like they never return the favor! )

If only they HAD frets (and tremolo bars!)

tuben wrote:Just Tuning is why trombone sections and excellent choirs can sound so incredibly rich, they lock into the mean of the chord making it sound crazy big and rich.

Robert Coulter

Thank you Robert! The huge AHA! moment in my musical life was when I realized how difficult it really was to play a valved instrument in tune. I had been spoiled for all those years on a trombone where you all you have to do is listen and match, like a singer. Tuba is infinitely more work. You first have to recognize you are not on the pitch, then decide what to do about it, and finally make a mechanical adjustment to a hard to reach slide to compensate for the inadequacies of manufacture and design. You guys who do it well and instinctively are amazing! A violin player who is out of tune has no one to blame but themselves!

I'd guess that the ongoing commentary about strings being unable to play in tune comes from people who are exposed to amateur strings....and that can be a major ouchie on the ears. Pro strings, good ones, can play in tune as well as a singer, except for the open G string, which they are stuck with if it's sharp. But if it is sharp...you'll see them quickly try to stretch it down to pitch.

MA

We sit right next to three guys who, year-after-year-after-year, slop over (pitch-wise, rhythm-wise, and execution-wise) that simple little up-the-D-major-scale lick in Leroy Anderson's A Christmas Festival...

True, very true.