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Piston CC's

Postby Frank Ortega » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:56 am

Does anyone know if they have more than one size of piston CC tuba?
If so, has anyone tried them?
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Re: Piston CC's

Postby ASTuba » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:07 pm

Frank Ortega wrote:Does anyone know if they have more than one size of piston CC tuba?
If so, has anyone tried them?


Frank,

They only have made one size of piston CC tuba. The problem is trying to find a maker of good quality piston valves in Germany that's not a totally unreasonable price. For the few 4345P CC tubas that they've made, the first ones had Nirschl valvesets, while the later ones had MW. I've seen 3 of the 4345P tubas, and the one with the Nirschl valves played better than the other 2.

I'm sure they would love to make more piston CC tubas, but at the price they would be given the weak dollar and strong Euro, I'm not sure how economically they would compete.
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Re: Piston CC's

Postby quinterbourne » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:15 pm

ASTuba wrote:For the few 4345P CC tubas that they've made, the first ones had Nirschl valvesets, while the later ones had MW. I've seen 3 of the 4345P tubas, and the one with the Nirschl valves played better than the other 2.


I have a 4345P, how would I find out if it is a Nirschl or MW valveset?
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Re: Piston CC's

Postby cjk » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:09 pm

quinterbourne wrote:
ASTuba wrote:For the few 4345P CC tubas that they've made, the first ones had Nirschl valvesets, while the later ones had MW. I've seen 3 of the 4345P tubas, and the one with the Nirschl valves played better than the other 2.


I have a 4345P, how would I find out if it is a Nirschl or MW valveset?


Yeah, ditto.
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Re: Piston CC's

Postby jonesbrass » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:47 pm

ASTuba wrote:
Frank Ortega wrote:Does anyone know if they have more than one size of piston CC tuba?
If so, has anyone tried them?


Frank,

They only have made one size of piston CC tuba.


Are we talking about the piston bore size, or actual tuba size (ie. 4/4)? The problem with saying they made only one is that Rudy's is a true custom shop. Yes, they have some standard models, but like Alexander, they can and will make anything you want, provided you have the cash. The Army band I was in had a few 5-valve piston BBb's made. (Yes, even the fifth valve was a piston- yuk!!)
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Re: Piston CC's

Postby Scooby Tuba » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:27 pm

jonesbrass wrote:The Army band I was in had a few 5-valve piston BBb's made. (Yes, even the fifth valve was a piston- yuk!!)


Were those the freaky 3+2 piston BBb tubas Rudy built?
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5/4 Rudy

Postby TubaSailor » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:25 pm

My $.02: I've only had experience with one Rudy - the 5/4 CC. It's BIG - 22mm bore (.866") and the sound matches. The pp has a presence which is noticeably different than any other horn I've played - and the FF is massive. (think in Seismic terms) I've had the front row of every ensemble I play in turn to find out what was different (in a good way) at one time or another. I've even had compliments from the OBOE players on the sound quality. I'm still working on my proficiency with the horn, the response and breath control are improving. I haven't run into any limitations with the horn - my own limitations are much more constraining. :oops: I'd buy another (smaller?) in an instant if I could afford it! - But I'd definitely keep this one. :)
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what a bore

Postby jeopardymaster » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:47 pm

I remember reading some old promotional material from Rudy Meinl (circa 1980something) crediting the 5/4 CC with a bore of .910. Yikes. 22 mm or .866 sounds a whole lot more realistic. Anyhow, they play WAAYY BIG.

Rudys have undergone considerable evolution over the years. They've had tighter wraps and more open wraps, depending, I suspect, on who did it.

As for the smaller ones, well, Les Varner showed me a 3/4 once with the warning that I'd never again be happy with my 184.

Total BS.
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Postby ASTuba » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:37 pm

That's true that Rudy is a custom shop. So there maybe some freak instruments out there. However, on a larger scale production level, they've only made one piston CC tuba, and they've made a couple of piston F tubas. Lee had one of those F's one time and they were great.

Christian, your CC has Nirschl valves. I don't know how to tell you to see them, but I know that particular tuba had Nirschl valves.
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Postby chhite » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:25 pm

The prototype piston F that Lee had last year began as one of those 3+2 piston horns and now it's an amazing F.

Andy, sorry to bust your chops, but Rudi does make other piston tubas that the US doesn't see unless they are special ordered. For instance, the 4/4 CC is in both piston and rotors, as is the 4345. Both the 4/4 and 5/4 BBbs are offered in piston as well. Rudi made a production version of the 4/4 F similar to Lee's prototype but it didn't play quite as well. He wanted to re-work a couple of things and then hit the market with it but I haven't seen them since March to ask about it.

Rudi's piston supplier for the last six or so years has been from a company near Frankfurt. They've been the most consistent as far as quality and delivery of product and Rudi, Jr. has been satisfied with their performance.
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Postby mTaUrBkA » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:01 pm

So it looks like a Rudy Meinl could serve a college student well in various situations? Hopefully I will have a chance to get out to Baltimore Brass or some other area to try some rudy meinls. Unfortunately, Baltimore Brass is about seven hours away :roll:
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Re: what a bore

Postby circusboy » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:27 pm

jeopardymaster wrote:
As for the smaller ones, well, Les Varner showed me a 3/4 once with the warning that I'd never again be happy with my 184.

Total BS.


Are you saying that Mr. Varner was incorrect? That you played the Rudi 3/4 and still love your 184?
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Re: Piston CC's

Postby jonesbrass » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:53 pm

Scooby Tuba wrote:
jonesbrass wrote:The Army band I was in had a few 5-valve piston BBb's made. (Yes, even the fifth valve was a piston- yuk!!)


Were those the freaky 3+2 piston BBb tubas Rudy built?


You got it, Scoob. Give that man a scooby snack!

FWIW, I have visited Rudy, Jr. on more than one occasion, and love the tone of his horns. VERY well built, true old-world craftsmanship. If you like how they play, and they like how you play, you can't really go wrong with a Rudy.
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Postby ASTuba » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:20 am

chhite wrote:The prototype piston F that Lee had last year began as one of those 3+2 piston horns and now it's an amazing F.

Andy, sorry to bust your chops, but Rudi does make other piston tubas that the US doesn't see unless they are special ordered. For instance, the 4/4 CC is in both piston and rotors, as is the 4345. Both the 4/4 and 5/4 BBbs are offered in piston as well. Rudi made a production version of the 4/4 F similar to Lee's prototype but it didn't play quite as well. He wanted to re-work a couple of things and then hit the market with it but I haven't seen them since March to ask about it.

Rudi's piston supplier for the last six or so years has been from a company near Frankfurt. They've been the most consistent as far as quality and delivery of product and Rudi, Jr. has been satisfied with their performance.


Chris,

You're not busting my chops, I am going off of information that is old. You live in Germany, so you'd know a lot more about Rudy Meinls than I do. I am just trying to learn how to play the tuba now.

Hope to see you soon!
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Principal Tuba, Fayetteville (NC) Symphony
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Does the Pope [blank] in the woods?

Postby jeopardymaster » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:48 am

Are you saying that Mr. Varner was incorrect? That you played the Rudi 3/4 and still love your 184?


Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?
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Postby iiipopes » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:31 am

Rudy Meinl is such a small shop, almost everything they make could be classified as "custom" in one way or another. And yes, the 17" bell BBb Rudy makes a fine college instrument. There is one in the stable at the nearby state university that sponsors the community band I play in. At the end of the season, I arrived to see the stable out for inventory, and got to blow back-to-back the Rudy, an M-W 25, and a few others. Yes, this one was a few years old, but if I didn't have my 186, it would be a viable choice.
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Re: Piston CC's

Postby Scooby Tuba » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:29 am

jonesbrass wrote:
Scooby Tuba wrote:
jonesbrass wrote:The Army band I was in had a few 5-valve piston BBb's made. (Yes, even the fifth valve was a piston- yuk!!)


Were those the freaky 3+2 piston BBb tubas Rudy built?


You got it, Scoob. Give that man a scooby snack!


WooHoo! This should garner me a whole box! :D

Image
Image
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Postby jonesbrass » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:31 am

Oh, man, Scooby. That's one of the "plumbers nightmares" !!!!!

The guy that had them built was really into brass band stuff . . . believed that the 3+1 configuration was better . . . played BBb in concert band . . . you can follow the logic to see how they were born.

Dave, if you're out there, send me a PM . . . haven't spoken with you in years.

Scoob, I owe you a box of scooby snacks!!
Willson 3050S CC, Willson 3200S F, B&S PT-10, 1922 Conn 86I, FOR SALE: Cerveny CFB-653-5IMX
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