Navy vs. Army Band questions: Please read before responding!

JHardisk · Post by **JHardisk** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:32 am

Greetings!

I have a Euphonium student that is very interested in a career in a military band. He is not Premiere band material, but is a fine player with a great head on his shoulders. We have discussed bands, and I've give him my best knowledge of other services, but I'm afraid there are some questions I don't have specific answers for. Since the Air Force is not going to hire in any forseeable future, I have guided him towards Navy and Army Field bands. He will finish a BM this year, and is looking for a job (Yes, I know this is the case for countless other Euphonium hopefuls!)

I am hoping to put him in contact with someone(s) who are currently Active Duty in an Army or Navy Field Band. I don't want any hurt feelings by those who have served, but you may know that information is rapidly changing within the services, and I don't want him to be misguided by yesterday' news.

If you wouldn't mind giving up a few minutes to speak with him, or answer a few questions from me, We'd greatly appreciate it!

Please respond via PM, as to not clutter the list with yet another my service is better/ back in the day... discussion.

Thanks!

wooliteeuph · Post by **wooliteeuph** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:58 am

I would be willing to give him a few minutes of information. I'm the euphonium player in the US Fleet Forces Band in norfolk, va. what questions did he happen to have.

Jay Parke · Post by **Jay Parke** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:56 pm

I would also like in on this if any Army, Navy, Marine bansmen want to pm me. Thanks.

NDSPTuba · Post by **NDSPTuba** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:45 pm

I would ONLY recommend an Air Force Band. Air Force field bands are the only field bands that duties are only band and administrative duties to support the band. They have no "military" duties. I'm pretty sure Navy and Army field bands can't say the same. But I guess if he is ok with having other real military duties outside of music, then they would be a good choice.

runelk · Post by **runelk** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:08 pm

Well for one thing, if you're in an army field band you will sometime spend time in a war zone. I believe there are at least two army bands in Iraq. I'd think they would have the same rotation of troops as the rest of the army ( i.e. one band rotates back to the states another band rotates into Iraq) 6 months - 1 year deployment, maybe longer.

In the Navy, more than likely you'd be stationed on a ship, and with the rest of the ships crew, you'd return to the states when that ship's battle group gets rotated back to the states. 6 months - 1 year deployment, maybe longer.

+ and -

- Army--stationed in a combat area, you will be armed with at least a sidearm, if not an M16.
- Army--look out for those mortar attacks.....SSSSSSS.....BOOM!!!!
- Army--convoy duty

- Navy--you're stuck on a ship
- Navy--can you say "hot bunk"
- Navy--hope you're not claustrophbic

JHardisk · Post by **JHardisk** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:24 pm

I need to clarify...

I am currently Active Duty in the Air Force Band of Flight. Until a few months ago, my administrative duty was the Auditions coordinator. I would love to be able to steer him towards an AF band, but I know for sure we will not hire anyone for quite some time, career field wide. We took a sizeable hit when the Air Force needed to slim down, and there is no timetable as to when bands will be able to hire a non piano/guitar/bass musician.

With that being said, I appreciate the responses!

EQueg · Post by **EQueg** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:28 am

runelk said

In the Navy, more than likely you'd be stationed on a ship, and with the rest of the ships crew, you'd return to the states when that ship's battle group gets rotated back to the states. 6 months - 1 year deployment, maybe longer.

Not trying to flame you runelk but none of this is true for musicians in the Navy

runelk said

- Navy--you're stuck on a ship
- Navy--can you say "hot bunk"
- Navy--hope you're not claustrophbic

the above would occasionally be true, but only occasionally and only a small fraction of the fleet bands actually deploy.

runelk · Post by **runelk** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:15 pm

I stand corrected, EQueg.

greatk82 · Post by **greatk82** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:26 pm

I have been out of the Army for about three months now, but I still have alot of current information. I would love to chat with him. PM if interested.

tubadoctor · Post by **tubadoctor** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:22 am

I just finished a tour there as the tuba instructor, and at the time I left the Navy wasn't hiring tubists... They are overstrength, and haven't hired a new tubist in a few years... jtuba is currently the instructor there, so if you would like the most current information, I'd try to PM him. I just left there about 3 months ago, and I doubt much has changed... I'd be happy to talk with him, and I'd also recommend following up on greakk82's offer for information... I've been in a great place to hear about all the best and worst that the Army has to offer, but he was actually out there living it...

I'd love to stay and chat, but there's a sick horn on the bench that needs my attention now...
Shane

greatk82 · Post by **greatk82** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:56 pm

tubadoctor wrote:I've been in a great place to hear about all the best and worst that the Army has to offer, but he was actually out there living it...

Ah, life experience. MRE's, vicodin, IEDs, Tubachristmas Tikrit 2003, over 500 musical missions, Ewald 1 on a Sousaphone in Sadam's Bathroom, walking to an Easter gig in Kuwait for a half a mile of a sandstorm while wearing a sousaphone...

Scott C · Post by **Scott C** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:03 am

It seems to me that the post was started in error when the postee listed as an ARMY Band vs NAVY Band post. Of which he has no experience. (the author being in the Air Force)

Maybe the instigator would like to edit his post : )

Better yet, we can all ignore the spew-postings from the folks who know not. Air Force Bandsmen know little about the Army programs. Army knows little about Navy, etc.

A better thread might be started on the experiences people had in each services band program.

This is what I know about the Army Band Program:

Ability to serve your country through music
GREAT college loan repayment program ($65,000)
Enlistment Bonuses (in OCT 07 it was $4,000 for 3 years to $15,000 for 6 years)
Quality Instruments Provided (miraphones, MW 2165, etc) each band has it's own gear
Opportunity for financial assistance to continue education (Tuition Assistance)
Bands in many different locations (Hawaii, Germany, Alaska, Washington, Georgia, etc)
Many bands have served in Iraq. No Bandsmen have been lost . You are part of history, not part of a couch.
National Guard and Reserve Band opportunities for "part time" service.
Health Care, retirement benefits, commissary, life long friends, clean lifestyle
On the music side, lots of performing experiences: many different smaller ensembles, tuba euph quartet, BQ, Quartet, Brass Ensemble, Dixieland, as well as many different venues.
Cool new uniform, don't have to polish boots!

If the idea of serving your country through music interests you, check it out. Talking to a recruiter does not obligate one to service. You could be doing worse things with your life!

Scott Cameron
Army Bandsmen
Fort Meade, MD

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:14 am

greatk82 wrote:
tubadoctor wrote:I've been in a great place to hear about all the best and worst that the Army has to offer, but he was actually out there living it...

Ah, life experience. MRE's, vicodin, IEDs, Tubachristmas Tikrit 2003, over 500 musical missions, Ewald 1 on a Sousaphone in Sadam's Bathroom, walking to an Easter gig in Kuwait for a half a mile of a sandstorm while wearing a sousaphone...

What greatk82 is saying is true: you will DEFINITELY do some unique and interesting things while in an Army band. Memories that will last a lifetime . . . (in Saddam's Bathroom? Great acoustics, I'd imagine . . .)

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:45 am

This has been a most interesting thread. I will say that I was disappointed by the remarks of the original poster, who did not want any input from former service band members. Pardon me, but I have a few comments to make.

Any military service starts with taking an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to obey the orders of of those officers placed over you. In the written Army contract, it basically says that you will be employed as much as possible in your desired specialty, but that you will be employed, "according to the needs of the Army". So, stuff happens, many times unexpectedly, and you might have to do something besides play upon occasion. However, the military services would not hire people as musicians if they did not need them to be musicians on a daily basis.

Just because one enlists in the Air Force or Navy would not guarantee that one would never encounter a hazardous situation, and just because one enlists in the Army or Marine Corps does not mean that they dodge bullets and mortars every day.

The bottom line is that there is some risk involved with doing anything worthwhile in your life, as a musician or anything else. I would suggest that your euphonium student check with ALL of the services, including the U.S. Marine Corps, audition for available positions, read the enlistment contracts for each service, and then make his best choice.

You didn't think that a retired veteran could post something besides a war story or outdated information?

Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
Master Sergeant, US Army (ret)

wooliteeuph · Post by **wooliteeuph** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:04 pm

well since there were many posts about the army and air force sides, i figured that i should shine some light on the navy side. i have only been in for a little under 3 years but what i have seen is pretty good so far. as of right now, if you were to be deployed, you would basically be doing missions that required music. simply put, we are here for public relations. with so many sailors leaving home to hit the water, the public doesn't get to see many representatives of the navy out in the community. that is a big part of what we do. public concerts, ceremonies, birthday balls...heck, we were even requested to judge a solo and ensemble festival a year and a half ago. as it stands the navy does have an individual augmentee (IA) program in which individual sailors would be ordered to stand the watch and fight out in afghanistan and cuba and africa, but with musicians i have noticed that they realize that it would be a waste to send sailors with no experience out in the field away from there purpose in the navy. I'm not saying that you will never get deployed, but chances are that if you were chosen, you could expect some sort of correspondence declining your deployment. as far as money goes, i have noticed that initial promotion is a little easier in the army than in the navy. soldiers come in as E-4's and could pick up E-5 in a matter of months after graduation from the school. we come in as E-3's and we are only promoted to E-4 after school if we have a degree. if not then you have to wait until you've served long enough and then take the test (by the way, all of the sailors out there can attest that the exam is no joke...VERY HARD!!!) the money situation really does sit well with the army but to tell the honest truth, I wanted to be somewhere in which my chances to hold a rifle would be slim to none and I have that with the navy. most of the people that i perform with do hold degrees, some with master's and possibly doctoral studies. depending on where you get sent you could have very short work days. i average about 20 hours or less a week. this is only because of the leadership here. they figured that if you don't have a rehearsal or a gig and you are either done working on your collateral duty (i.e. library, supply etc.) then you have no reasono to be at work. hopefully this information has given you some insight on the navy ways of music. i'll take any other questions you might have about the program.

sungfw · Post by **sungfw** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:05 pm

Lee Stofer wrote:I will say that I was disappointed by the remarks of the original poster, who did not want any input from former service band members. [snip] You didn't think that a retired veteran could post something besides a war story or outdated information?

Well, considering that several former service band members DID post outdated information (see posts on Air Force band and Navy band deployment, upthread) I don't think the request for up-to-date information from current band memebers is unreasonable.

Any military service starts with taking an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic

Is this the case for the USCG Band?

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:03 am

Is this the case for the USCG Band?

If Uncle Sam is paying, your doing the saying.

Chuck

greatk82 · Post by **greatk82** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:20 am

The big question is: Do you swear or affirm?

I always would swear. I like to swear.

sungfw · Post by **sungfw** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:51 pm

Chuck Jackson wrote:
Is this the case for the USCG Band?
If Uncle Sam is paying, your doing the saying.

Are you sure? Maybe a USCG band member could chime in here.

During the Interservice Euph Panel seminar at the Army Tuba Euph conference this past January (2007), James Jackson (principle euph.) said that USCG band members do not undergo basic training. (He also said that he himself can't swim or tread water.)

Given the USCG's mission, it does rather raise the question of whether someone who hasn't had basic training would be qualified to perform, much less assigned, duties falling outside the Band's normal purview, which begs the further question of whether or not band members take the oathâ€”which, presumably, would mean that one could be reassigned to another ratingâ€”to which Lee Stofer referred.

JHardisk · Post by **JHardisk** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:28 am

Wow... I did not expect the response I've gotten, both quantity and tone it's taken. I've been sick for a while and haven't had a chance to keep up with TubeNet, so pardon my absence.

First, by my posting I was not in any way looking to instigate another TubeNet argument. I just wanted some folks to be able to answer questions my student might have about the pros and cons of a military gig in their respective service, without the influence of a recruiter.

By asking for current members, I was not trying to isolate anyone from their opinions or experiences. I know, because I am active duty that things change often, and quickly.

I do appreciate very much the willingness from all the people who've pm'ed me. I'm going to sort through some stuff and get back with everyone next week when I have down time at Midwest.

Again, thanks so much for the overwhelming responses!

As a side item... John Rider.. it is great to see you off and posting on TubeNet! For those of you who didn't gather, John is somewhere in the Middle East right now, defending our country with his Hirsbrunner Howitzer F tuba. He'll miss the holidays with his family. Think of him when you're sitting down to eat a nice holiday dinner, and he's freezing his butt off in some mountainous place that ends in -istan. John, we miss you guys dearly, and hope for nothing buy safe travels while you're over there. And you'd better come back unscathed... I need someone to talk to during ceremonies and our hacking is really sliding down the backside!

Navy vs. Army Band questions: Please read before responding!

Navy vs. Army Band questions: Please read before responding!

Army Band and Navy Band Experiences