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OK, oldbandnerd, here's a euphonium subject

Has anyone actually bought a TE-1150L compensating euphonium? Any thoughts on it (other than the usual Chinese bashing from those who haven't ever played one)?

Tuba Exchange is supposed to be getting in a shipment of these in both lacquer and silver this coming week. I plan on going over there and trying both variants with an eye towards buying one.

Hi Jim,

There was a fellow playing one with us at the airport after thanksgiving. I think this is David Berendsen - also a trombone player. I'll PM you his email address. We've got a picture of him playing it on our web site (http://triangletubas.com/images/tc2007/IMG_0124.jpg).

--paul;

p.s. Please everyone, don't direct link this picture. Thanks.

pg wrote:Hi Jim,

There was a fellow playing one with us at the airport after thanksgiving. I think this is David Berendsen - also a trombone player. I'll PM you his email address. We've got a picture of him playing it on our web site (http://triangletubas.com/images/tc2007/IMG_0124.jpg).

--paul;

p.s. Please everyone, don't direct link this picture. Thanks.

Thanks, Paul. I'll send him an email.

You did a great job conducting the Christmas Tubas, by the way. It was a fun afternoon, if a little chilly.

I think the Chinese have heard the complaints and resolved to improve. Part of the efffort to improve takes inspiration from some "Japanese" style restaurants. The last Chinese horn I ordered resulted in the delivery of a group of Chinese artisans who constructed the horn in front of me, at my table, as I enjoyed a cup of saki ... or ... uh ... whatever the Chinese drink. It was truly amazing the acrobatics they could do with a propane torch.

the elephant wrote:

lgb&dtuba wrote: . . . the usual Chinese bashing from those who haven't ever played one . . .

???

The "usual bashing" on this site usually comes from teachers here with direct experience in aiding students in locating horns, or from people who are looking for horns for themselves as backup instruments at a decent price.

You mean like in this thread?

viewtopic.php?t=24846&start=0&postdays= ... highlight=

the elephant wrote:

lgb&dtuba wrote: . . . the usual Chinese bashing from those who haven't ever played one . . .

???

The "usual bashing" on this site usually comes from teachers here with direct experience in aiding students in locating horns, or from people who are looking for horns for themselves as backup instruments at a decent price.

With all due respect, elephant, more than a small percentage of negative comments about Chinese horns come from people who, by their own admission, either have never played the horn (notice lgb&dtuba asked specifically about the TE-1150L, not Chinese horns in general), or whose impression is based on having bought/played a Chinese horn 3, 4, or more years ago. Yes, 3-4 years ago, even the best Chinese horns could reasonably be characterized as "junk," however, since you yourselve acknowledge that Chinese horns are improving at an alarming rate, I would submit, opinions based on 3-4 year old experiences are badly outdated and do not accurately reflect the current quality of the better Chinese-made horns.

I have played about a dozen different Tuba Exchange euphs—both non-comp and comp—from 3 different shipments, and play-tested them against a Yamaha 321 (silver), King 2280 (silver), and my comp Besson New Standard as well as a tuner. While I cannot speak for every TE1300, the ones I have played have been at least the equal of the 321 and the 2280 in terms of build quality and intonation, and would choose the TE1300 over either of the established models; and based on my side-by-side test of the TE comp with my New Standard, were my New Standard to be stolen or damaged to the extent that the cost to repair would exceed the cost of the TE1150, I would not hesitate to replace it with at TE1150. Nevertheless, I would still play-test several of them side-by-side to find the best of the lot, just as I would were I in the market for a Besson, Yamaha, Sterling, Miraphone, Courtois, or any other brand.

SplatterTone wrote:I think the Chinese have heard the complaints and resolved to improve.

The Chinese, at this point, will get away with whatever they can get away with in building an instrument. They will make it as poorly or as well as the importer insists (and persists).

Scruples in Chinese business are not the same as Western scruples either. Some retailers have dropped certain Chinese brands because of that.

All that said, the Tuba Exchange euphonium is a good horn. I owned one and and used it often, sometimes in preference to top-of-the-line instruments. It was easier to play but may have lacked a little depth of tone. I would recommend it over the Yamaha's for price and quality.

the elephant wrote:

sungfw wrote:With all due respect, elephant . . .

Ditto what I said above to Jim.

Right back at ya, elephant!

I believe that a lot of the bashing is coming from frustration with the loss of our American-made horns to another nation

I suspect that this, more than anything else, is the primary motivation for the bashing. (Interesting that you don't hear the same complaints about crappy Yamaha, Conn, King, Bach, etc. horns, even though most of them are now either made in China or are assembled from parts made in China.)

BTW – Unless one takes apart a horn and checks it out with a woodwind leak light and a long handled repairman's mirror, you cannot really know anything about build quality.

When I took my Besson in to Tuba Exchange for some valve work last month, Mike Morse, the repair tech, had 5 silver TE1300s taken apart on his bench for inspection. According to Mike, he goes over every TE euph that comes into the store, and any horn that doesn't measure up to his standards is sent back to the mfg. (Makes sense, since he has a personal stake in the build quality, since he's the guy who does the final setup before these things go out the door, and, since TE sells a boatload of these horns to schools in the Triangle and Piedmont, is going to end up doing the majority of warranty work on them.)

Mike has been doing repair work in the area since 1981, and is widely respected for his workmanship and integrity. I'm willing to take his word that these are well-made intermediate-level horns because I've had him work on my horns and he's always done right by me, in terms of the quality of the work done and advice on what work is worth doing (from a cost-to-benefit perspective).


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Scruples in Chinese business are not the same as Western scruples either.

If they keep trying they might eventually get to the level of Enron and Worldcom, Huh.

What I posted was a joke. To prevent confusion in the future, I'll be sure to label jokes as such.

In fact, I am waiting on Mike Morse to do his inspections on the latest shipment before I go over there and play test anything. Mike has done a little work for me in the past and I, too, respect his abilities and integrety.

Not having to earn my living with my horns means that sometimes I can get away with, shall we say, less than top of the line equipment. I tinker quite a bit with my musical instruments and will willingly deal with problems that others may not be willing to, especially if they have to depend upon their horns (or other instruments) to put a paycheck in the bank.

In this particular case I am looking for something better than what I usually buy and public and private comments indicate that the TE-1150L may fit my requirements.

I don't disagree with some of the comments on Chinese instruments in general. Wade's comments are always appreciated.

I can relate experiences on 3 different Chinese euphoniums I've owned, both negative and positive. But it wouldn't have anything to do with the TE-1150, so I'll refrain.

SplatterTone wrote:

Scruples in Chinese business are not the same as Western scruples either.

If they keep trying they might eventually get to the level of Enron and Worldcom, Huh.

Some of the folks at Enron were handed long prison sentences and deserve much worse.

Not to lessen both of those scandals, but anyone thinking they can do business in China knows that an ironclad contract and a Chinese lawyer who is well connected in the government is no guarantee.

The product they are making "exclusively" for you can show up on WalMart shelves at half the price before your product is delivered to you for distribution. The product they show as representative of their manufacturing ability may have been made by another company. They may decide to paint your product with lead paint or use poisionous materials as a component ("Oh, you mean you can be sued for that in the US? So sorry.")... and not bother to inform you that a slight change has been made. Ask Mattell and others.

It takes a brave person to set out to do business in China. Congratulations to any company who is successful at it.

Alex C wrote:

SplatterTone wrote:The Chinese, at this point, will get away with whatever they can get away with in building an instrument. They will make it as poorly or as well as the importer insists (and persists).

Scruples in Chinese business are not the same as Western scruples either.

And Western business scruples are better?

http://www.newsobserver.com/100/story/402173.html

http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/25/accountingtracker.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_scandal

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/15/us/15 ... yt&emc=rss

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/business/10vioxx.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/17/funds/b ... /index.htm

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/26/magazin ... tune_0612/

Alex C wrote:

SplatterTone wrote:

Scruples in Chinese business are not the same as Western scruples either.

If they keep trying they might eventually get to the level of Enron and Worldcom, Huh.

Some of the folks at Enron were handed long prison sentences

And still got to keep the money they looted from the companies despite being convicted.

In China, they execute people for the kind of stuff that those Enron/Worldcom/Adelphia perps used to pad their 401(k)s—assuming the executives don't commit suicide before the law catches up with them.

Thanks for the input from everyone who actually responded to the subject.

Today I picked up my new TE-1150S. I couldn't be more pleased with it. One tip for anyone else thinking about one of these. The included mouthpiece is a no name 6 1/2 AL as best I can tell by comparing. I thought the tone was much too brassy with it. I bought a Schilke 51D to use instead. That really smoothed it out and now it has that velvety and clear euph sound I was looking for. In fact, Vince handed me the 51D instead of the included one when I was play testing and he was spot on.

If you get another mouthpiece, you'll need a large shank one. Not European or small.

Now to get back to practicing.