Worst thing about horns you own (or have owned)

[MartyNeilan]

Everyone here always brags about how great their horn is (or was) - and I am as guity as any.
However, we all know that even the best horns aren't perfect
SO... I would like to see a list of "warts" of current or past horns. Specific details, and only horns you own or have owned!

Since I am originating the topic, let me start:

Present horn: Kalison K2001: High C on top of the staff stinko open. Fortunately, works fine 1st all the way in (horn is blessed with a short 1st slide) or creative 5th valve fingerings.

Past:
Mirafone 190 BBb: became a contrabass trombone at FF and above. May have been due to leadpipe being moved off the bell, and pre-heavyweight mouthpiece days. Early attempts involved taping the bell; an extra brace soldered between top bow and bell finally cured some of it.

Meinl Weston 25: Getzen vintage, several VERY tight 90 degree crooks in 4th valve tubing, probably done to put slide in easy reach; made valve stuffy. Earlier and later vintages do not have this anomoly.

B&M 5520 CC (factory CC): very uneven scale. Herr Nirschl should have had Bob Rusk come over to Germany for a couple of weeks to make his BBb tubas into CC's instead of doing it himself. Least favorite horn I have ever owned (out of many). Great sound and valves, though.

Reynolds Bass Trombone: too dark at low to mid volumes, possibly due to orange (!) bell

Yamah P200 digital piano: if the piano patches were so good, how come the B3 sounds were absoutely horrible?

Ovation roundback hollow bass guitar: fret buzz, fret buzz, fret buzz. Blah sound plugged in, almost no sound unplugged. Hopefully the ones made within the last decade are better.

I will add more as I think of them.

[dtemp]

Present horns-

MW 2040/5 EEb - Not as big of a sound as I had hoped (i.e. not a CC replacement)

Conn 52J CC - GREAT scale, COULD hold up the bottom of a decent sized orchestra, but too much overlap with the EEb that I've decided to keep for a long while (hence its place in the 'for sale' section).

Miraphone 1258 Euph - I hate keeping silver horns clean.

Past Horns-

MW 2000 - Hard to hold for me, never really got comfortable behind it...

PT10 - See above

Yamaha 822 - The more I think about it, the less I recall why I sold this horn.

[GC]

Conn 25J --- like carrying around a sack of lead; plays well, though; huge sound, but can play softly

King 2341 (modern) --- 1st, 2nd valve slides too long; was very difficult to play in tune; satin silver finish very coarse and hard to clean

Cerveny 601 CC --- was like trying to blow into a running vacuum cleaner; gigantic, dark sound, but terrible pedal tones

MW 25 --- early '70s, but not Getzen stencil; extremely stuffy 4th valve; inflexible intonation; great tone, great valves, easy high & low range; still wish I'd never sold it

[OldsRecording]

My Recording- the valves can be sticky at inopportune times, despite copius application of Ultrapure Lamp Oil.

My Sovereign- don't play it often enough, not a very forgiving horn- has a lot of backpressure. When I do pick it up it takes me a while to get a decent sound.

[josh wagner]

The hit on my pocket book.

[tubacdk]

current horn:
nirschl 4/4 CC - honestly can't complain about the playability. but the thing is pretty heavy for its size and the leadpipe is ridiculously short. those two things make the horn pretty much impossible to play standing up. and believe me, I've tried.

former horns:
Meinl Weston 2155R 5/4 CC - had a rather Chinese scale... bottom line G had to be 1&3, Eb below was 1&5, I think F# might have been 2&4. sound was great though. definitely made up for it.

[MartyNeilan]

From the preliminary responses, it appears the tubas we love are a lot like the women we love:
Hard to get quiet, drain the pocket book, and heavier than we would prefer

[lgb&dtuba]

The only tuba I've owned and still own is a Sanders BBb. The only thing I don't like about it is that's it's very easy to dent. I've smoothed the bell out serveral times with just my bare hands.

[Wyvern]

MW 2040/5 EEb - Not as big of a sound as I had hoped (i.e. not a CC replacement)

A 2040/5 actually provides a good replacement for a 6/4 F, but not a CC - definitely bass tuba sound.


For my tubas past and present:

Besson 981 - too low leadpipe, crouching over I partially blame for neck problems I suffered last year.

B&S 3181 - intermittent sticking valves which drove me mad

Melton 2040/5 - the high E is difficult to slot (resulting in an embarrassing split note playing Meistersinger!)

B&S PT-20 - incredibly heavy for a 4/4 (more than the Cerveny Kaiser )

B&S Neptune - valves not as fast or smooth as on my PT-20

Cerveny 701 - really sucks the air (but provides a good work out!)

M-W 182 - intonation of C is challenging

Haag Eb - stuffy low Bb

[MikeS]

Willson Euph (former horn)- Tuning the Bflat with the band and then pushing in the tuning slide because the tuning Bflat was 10-15 cents lower than the rest of the scale. I loved the response of that horn but hated fighting with it over pitch. It's always been a mystery to me why everyone bad-mouths Alexander tuba's intonation and gives the Willson euphs a pass. Every F on that horn was an adventure and I had folk tell me it was better than most.

Salvationist Eflat Tuba (current horn)- The only good fingering for the F in the staff is 1-2-4. 1 alone and 4 alone are unworkably flat. Oh, and the combination strap holder/male castration device sticking out of the bottom bow.

Yamaha 321 Euph (current horn)- If your concept of euphonium sound fits this horn, which mine does, it has no vices. Please note above that I already own an Eflat tuba so I don't need to make my euph sound like one. Plus I sold my Willson for close to enough to pay for the 321 plus the Alex 163 mentioned below.

Alexander 163 CC (current horn)- Playing the Fsharps and Csharps 2-4 or 1-2-3 with a pull. By the way, although I do use some alternate fingerings on the Alex I find I do less slide pulling than with any other large tuba I've owned.

[The Big Ben]

I've owned two tubas:

King 1140: Nice little student horn. Good sound for a little guy. I found I kind of liked the top loader valves. The case easily fit in the trunk of my car.
Bad thing: Waaaaaay too much money in it. Bought it as a beater, had it Oberlohed and bought a brand new case for it. It became surplus when I lucked out on an incredable deal on my 2340. I played it some but it just kind of sat until I heard that a school needed a cheap but good horn. Just sold it to a private middle school orchestra program for a loss. Hopefully, they respect it and get some kids on the road to depravity as tuba players....

King 2340: Nice big sound. Predictable intonation. A great starter horn which potentially could be my last horn. If I don't play well, it's not my horn's fault.

Bad thing: My low range agility is starting to fall into place and a fourth valve would be nice. It's tall and that big ol' recording bell seems to always be in the way of something. No wonder the rims on the bells of these things always look buggered up. It's 'not pretty'.

[windshieldbug]

Marzan/B&M slant-rotor CC: String linkages. Tuba valves be much bigger and weigh a little more than horn valves.

Mirafone 184 4U: Built very sharp. Unless you're playing with an orchestra, the tuning slide is ALL THE WAY out.

Meinl-Weston 45 F: Big enough for a large symphony, but the 6/4 size doesn't have the "bass tuba" sound that you want for some solos

Conn 2K Eb helicon: Made before Conn settled on "a" neck size, so it's smaller than all of the horns made later in the century.

Conn 26K Eb sousaphone: Light for a brass horn, but still enough metal to make long stints tiring. And only 3 valves.

Conn presentation DB baritone: Made Low Pitch before A was standardized at 440, so had to make new tuning slides slightly smaller

Distin Eb: Good bass tuba sound, but only 3 valves

Holton 4v & 5v DB euphoniums: solder weakened with age in some places, but "big flugelhorn" sound now coming back

Holton BBb monster bore helicon: A real monster to wear, even for a little while!

Missenharter Eb "raincatcher": Thin brass is very wearable, but can sound "tinny" if pushed very hard

[Wyvern]

Meinl-Weston 45 F: Big enough for a large symphony, but the 6/4 size doesn't have enough of a tonal change for some solos

That's interesting - when I recently tried one, I felt it was heavier in tone than my Melton 2040/5 Eb.

Nice tuba, but not what I associate as an F tuba sound

[windshieldbug]

Meinl-Weston 45 F: Big enough for a large symphony, but the 6/4 size doesn't have enough of a tonal change for some solos

That's interesting - when I recently tried one, I felt it was heavier in tone than my Melton 2040/5 Eb.

Nice tuba, but not what I associate as an F tuba sound

's what I meant... big horn sound, good for security in high parts, but no Barlow...

[jonesbrass]

Ovation roundback hollow bass guitar: fret buzz, fret buzz, fret buzz. Blah sound plugged in, almost no sound unplugged. Hopefully the ones made within the last decade are better.

Marty, you've overlooked the Ovation's outstanding functionality for camping. If you lose your canoe paddle, you can always use an Ovation.

[Matt Walters]

Homemade 4/4 York CC tuba and 4/4 H.N. White CC tuba

The problem with my little York CC:
1) The "E's" and "A's" played 1&2 are about 15 cents sharp. I have to either lip down, pull the 1st slide, play it 3rd valve with the 3rd slide pushed in all the way, or just not worry about it.

The problem with my little H.N. White CC:
1) The "E's" and "A's" played 1&2 are about 15 cents sharp. I have to either lip down, pull the 1st slide, play it 3rd valve with the 3rd slide pushed in all the way, or just not worry about it.
2) The bottom line "G" is 10 cents sharp so I have to relax a bit on the note or just not worry about it.
3) Not the same leadpipe angle as my York CC.

The problem with all the other project horns I have:
1) They aren't completed yet.

Biggest complaint I have with all my horns is that they don't self practice.

[justinbarleben]

I don't own it, but it's my current school horn...
-Yamaha top action 4/4 three valve (piston)
-oh yeah, it's convertible too
-The second valve is ridiculously out of tune, to the point where I have to lip every note flat when I play the 2nd valve. I play bottom-space A 1-3 on a regular basis.
-The second valve fills with moisture every 10 minutes or so, even if I never depress it throughout the course of playing. I have to empty it after every piece.

I shouldn't be complaining. It's free to play, and it has a nice sound as long as I don't have to deal w/ the second valve.

[tubatooter1940]

1940 King Eb recording bass, F in the staff is unlippably flat 1-3 is more on pitch but stuffy.

[OldBandsman]

Miraphone 182

Tuning slides are driving me nuts.

Main band tries to tune to A=442. Requires main tuning slide to be all the way in. Lots of trouble at summer concerts when the evening air temp goes down suddenly. 2nd valve slide is in all the way but I can hardly lip an A up far enough. Would like more leeway on that. 4th valve slide is short so can't be
used to help tune occasional very low notes.

All slides move nicely ... too nicely. The 4th valve and main tuning pull downward . Was a big problem in the jazz band that played in a retirement home where the piano was way flat. I would pull the slide as far as I dared, but often I'd manage to put enough air through to finally blow the slide out on the floor. It's a shock every time. A couple of weeks ago I took matters into my own hands and muscled the slides a wee bit wider so they stay in until I really need to move them.

Then there is always a problem with chairs. I'm so short that when I put the bottom bow on the chair I can't quite get my mouth up to the mouthpiece. Those cheap folding chairs, and some good ones, put my bum lower than the front of the chair. I carry around some cushions and my own chair most of the
time. Gotta figure out how to grow a couple of inches....

Not long after I got the tuba I had the 1st and 3rd valves start to stick. I discovered that I was getting excited about playing enought to grab onto the valve slides that come vertically out of the valve assembly. That pulled the slidesout of line enough bind on the valve assembly. I had some new braces installed to hold it all more firmly. And learned to hold on elsewhere.

It's been fun!

John

[gregsundt]

B&S F Symphonie tuba (That's us in my avatar): The worst thing about it was when I had to sell it so I could buy a 4/4 Rudy. L.h. thumb 5th valve lever was weird, but usable.

Early 70s Rudy 4/4: The worst thing about it was when I had to sell it to keep a roof over our heads. The last tuba I ever owned. I believe '08 is the year I will finally replace it.