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tuba kitchen wrote:so, next question: which larger Eb (thinking of willson 3400 or MW 2141) would have a "german" sound and would fit into a german orchestra???

Definitely the MW 2040/5 has a German F tuba sound. It was designed specifically with that sound in mind (using a PT-65 mouthpiece).

I have had the chance to play test and compare side by side with a MW 45 and a B&S PT-15 F and the tone from the 2040/5 is midway between those two. The 45 is slightly broader, while the PT-15 is slightly leaner in tone.

I have also played the F tuba part in an Austrian band on my 2040/5 and its tone matched perfect.

Jonathan "who thinks the tone of a Besson EEb is nearer to a 4/4 CC"

so...is the MW2141 has a German sound or the "Meinl Weston" sound? I think it has its traditional MW sound. (JMO)

As you can see, I tend to diversity, as all have their place, and application.

iiipopes wrote:As you can see, I tend to diversity, as all have their place, and application.

Me, too. My stable:

Holton BB-345 (American, by definition)
York Master (American in inspiration, but Germanic in execution)
Miraphone 186 (Sprechen sie Deutsch?)
Martin TU-31 (There's no place like plastic home)

B&S Symphonie F (as German as it gets, in a Marxist sort of a way)
Yamaha YFB-621 (as Bloke accurately observed, British to the core, except for the "Made in Japan" bit)

Rick "horses for courses and all that" Denney

Up until 2006 I played all "American" or "British" horns (since 1952 or so) according to the classifications offered by the savants in this thread. I acquired an old (197x) Miraphone 186 BBb 4v with recording bell and immediately fell in love with its tone, projection and intonation. I then got the tuba equipment bug (having gone 15 years without buying any horns) and bought a brand new 1291 5v BBb which I was totally besotted with for about 11 months. An old 5/4 Rudy BBb became available and needless to say, it was love at first note. I sent the 1291 down to Dillons if anyone is interested in a good 5v BBb with an MTS case and an extra 2/3 5th valve slide. The point of this little ramble is that I am completely enamored with the "German" sound. Walter Hilger is a demi-god.

I play a mira 186. Can I get a "american sound"? I sound too piercing in band according to my band director (she says I am louder than the trombones)(our trombones suck).

I use a RT-44

bloke wrote:bump

Meh, I'll take an ancient Bohemian sousaphone (in the right hands of course) any day ...
http://youtu.be/NWIgDTHdtKc

TheTuba wrote:I play a mira 186. Can I get a "american sound"? I sound too piercing in band according to my band director (she says I am louder than the trombones)(our trombones suck).

try a Helleberg style mouthpiece...

Tried funnels, I suck on them. Plus I don't like the bite. I don't want to change mouthpieces, just the sound.

I have been dealing with this issue in my own playing recently.

For 30+ years I have played a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb with a 19"bell. It has a very "broad" tone. I always enjoyed its full and rich sound. I would liken this to the "American" style. A small bore horn with a large bell, which diffuses the sound a bit. For the past few years I was trying to get a more focused sound, (since I play the top Eb part in a brass band) so I started using a bowl style mouthpiece as opposed a Helleberg style (I used a conn Helleberg on the horn for probably 15 years.)

About a year ago I purchased a Miraphone Norwegian Star Eb, and the tone is much more focused (German?), like a scalpel as opposed to a butter knife. It would be a larger bore horn but with a smaller bell (more cylindrical overall than the Boosey?) I have been experimenting with which mouthpiece to use. I have a number of Sellmanberger cups to interchange with my rim (the older 2 piece models, Imperial, Symphony, Solo # 1 & 2, also regular and mega rims). I seem to have settled in on the Solo #2 with the mega (deep) rim, so I have a bowl cup, but a bit deeper. I find when I use the Sellmansberger Symphony, which is a deep funnel, the horn definitely loses some of that edge and has a broader tone. When I play with the pops Orchestra I think I may use the Symphony cup to help broaden the tone a bit for the larger ensemble. I would be curious how much this difference is actually heard out in the audience??? Or is it a matter of feel vs. sound?

I also prefer the more focused sound with my quintet. It just gives me a more precise tone and articulation, which I like in the quintet (for now, anyway, maybe in a year I will wish for the fuller sound again, who knows.)

Norwegian Star vs. Boosey Imperial (Besson), definitley two different style horns, two distinct sounds. Which is better? A matter of taste I would guess. Do you like a German accent or an English accent?

bloke wrote:What is the proper mouthpiece to use with a Chinese copy of a Japanese copy of a German copy of a one-off American tuba?

Obviously.

Wait, do English tubas have a particular "sound"?

Would James Gourlay playing his recordings of 'British Tuba Concertos' be the British tuba sound? He seems to be a Besson artist and a well regarded UK tuba player told me James uses a 24 equivalent mouthpeice. So am guessing that's what equipment the album was recorded with.

The most traditional german Bb tuba sound was and is the 6/4 Bohland and Fuchs(or other old instrument builder from Graslitz and surrounding area)
Lots big tubas (upright mainslide) based on this type and body form. Amazing and unequaled sound.

Patrase wrote:Would James Gourlay playing his recordings of 'British Tuba Concertos' be the British tuba sound? He seems to be a Besson artist and a well regarded UK tuba player told me James uses a 24 equivalent mouthpeice. So am guessing that's what equipment the album was recorded with.

I would say John Fletcher playing a Besson 19” bell compensated EEb tuba provides the classic British tuba sound. At least that is the sound a lot of us tuba players in the UK aspire

other than American, German, and British tonal colors, Is there any other regional tonal characteristic that is seperate from these and followed by many people?

Also, With the Advent of more tuba players, will a new "Asian" sound begin to emerge?

Finally, other than the more Cylindrical (Miraphone) tubas (German), and the more broad Conical/very fast increasing bell diameter (King 2341) tubas (American), will a new design emerge that complements the above mentioned "Asian" sound?


With the new players, the tuba world is getting more exciting..........

Would the newer 186 miraphone be a American tuba or a Germanic tuba?
Also, would the wessex luzern be considered a german or american?
Finally, what are some tubas that are American but use valves?
One more question I promise!
Off topic, but are most piston American horns like the king 2341's? I recall that some notes were stuffy/ loud ( looking at you, B and C) on that horn, that's why I steered clear of pistons from then on.

EDIT: when I say American and german, I mean the American and German styles of tubas

TheTuba, you really should lurk more or use google to find out these things. Even though it is forgivable considering you are a beginner to the tuba world, some of these questions do not make a ton of sense and you tend to relate features of tubas to the sounds that they make even though 99% of tone is coming from the players themselves.

Now to actually answer some of the questions:

"With the Advent of more tuba players, will a new "Asian" sound begin to emerge?"
Only if they start designing their own tubas rather than copying aspects of other companies horns.

"Finally, other than the more Cylindrical (Miraphone) tubas (German), and the more broad Conical/very fast increasing bell diameter (King 2341) tubas (American), will a new design emerge that complements the above mentioned "Asian" sound?"
No.

"Would the newer 186 miraphone be a American tuba or a Germanic tuba?"
German

"would the wessex luzern be considered a german or american?"
German

"Finally, what are some tubas that are American but use valves?"
All of them.

"are most piston American horns like the king 2341"
No, and I found the 2341 to be a very free blowing horn in my experience. I don't understand why you think that the pistons contributed to a different sound quality and that they should be avoided on other horns because of one experience.