Rotor?

danzfat · Post by **danzfat** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:53 am

Why is it i feel as if i can fill out a piston horn even a big Willson CC but no rotor horns. I try to be as consistent as possible when trying both but it sounds so hollow on rotors. I have played models that are the same just piston or rotor too. Has any one else ever expierenced this.
Daniel Rathert

CTAYLOR · Post by **CTAYLOR** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:01 am

i know what you mean! I played on a Yamaha BBb the professional model 4 rotor. i forgot the model number. 641 maybe? and had that same problem.. But we also had The old Besson "new standard" tubas, the 3 top action pistons. i could get WAY more sound from those and were easier to play. I HATE rotor tubas. always have

pwhitaker · Post by **pwhitaker** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:18 am

My own recent experience is different: I just switched from a Mira 1291 BBb 5 valve (4 piston - 1 rotor) with a .835 bore to an older Rudy Meinl BBb 4 rotors which is significantly larger (5/4) both in bow size and bore (at least .866 according to my yardstick.) I find that the Rudy is more responsive and takes at most the same amount of air. I was really surprised at first by this because the 1291 is such a free blowing and open horn. Perhaps a piston version of this Rudy would be even more open but I don't think these older Rudys had that option.

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:44 am

CTAYLOR wrote:i know what you mean! I played on a Yamaha BBb the professional model 4 rotor. i forgot the model number. 641 maybe? and had that same problem.. But we also had The old Besson "new standard" tubas, the 3 top action pistons. i could get WAY more sound from those and were easier to play. I HATE rotor tubas. always have

Don't hate rotor horns after playing a Yamaha 641. Many (myself included) feel the tone on those thing, well, as I like to say..the horn just has "no soul". The sound just feels hollow to me. Others can make those things sing, but I can't. My 4 rotor Marzan....not that's another story all together. The horn makes me look good.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:43 am

Tubaryan12 wrote:.....Don't hate rotor horns after playing a Yamaha 641. Many (myself included) feel the tone on those thing, well, as I like to say..the horn just has "no soul"....

Ditto. Yamaha has a lot of nerve labeling the YBB-641 a 'professional horn'. I think it's one of the worst horns on the market today. It's just is not a very efficient horn for me.

jonesbrass · Post by **jonesbrass** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:58 am

Tubaryan12 wrote:
CTAYLOR wrote:i know what you mean! I played on a Yamaha BBb the professional model 4 rotor. i forgot the model number. 641 maybe? and had that same problem.. I HATE rotor tubas. always have
Don't hate rotor horns after playing a Yamaha 641. Many (myself included) feel the tone on those thing, well, as I like to say..the horn just has "no soul". The sound just feels hollow to me. Others can make those things sing, but I can't. My 4 rotor Marzan....not that's another story all together. The horn makes me look good.

I've never met a Yamaha rotor tuba that I liked, either. IMHO, Yamaha does a MUCH better job with their piston horns. If you really want to judge a rotor horn, do yourself a favor and try a German/Swiss/Czech one.

The Jackson · Post by **The Jackson** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:03 pm

I hated rotor-valved horns, too (I blame the 641

), but after I started playing the 186 I use at school, that completely changed. The only reason I'd really want a piston valve horn as opposed to a rotor horn would be just that, the valves.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:03 pm

The Jackson wrote:The only reason I'd really want a piston valve horn as opposed to a rotor horn would be just that, the valves.

Duh!

Casey Tucker · Post by **Casey Tucker** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:29 pm

i used to always play piston because i felt that i wasn't getting the same results from a rotor. i think it was because i was comparing sounds with valve layout instead of the horn in general. i've found that with a horn of equal size there are a lot of pros to a rotor horn. for me when in faster slurred passages the rotors make it way smoother and it's easier to jump around between octaves and other odd intervals. not to mention the throw of the rotor is significantly shorter than my pistons.

CTAYLOR · Post by **CTAYLOR** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:47 pm

Well the only rotor tuba ive ever played was the Yamaha. i guess thats what made me hate them. I could never play too fast on the yamaha or the notes would all start running together..the rotors were slow, and had no "spring" to them. Im just a fan of pistons

Tubanese · Post by **Tubanese** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:30 pm

I used to hate rotor tuba 'till I played MW45slz, but I do agree that 641 is not a greatest horn...

TUbajohn20J · Post by **TUbajohn20J** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:43 am

I hate pretty much all rotor tubas. Except the Willson 3100 RZ-4. Wait, it might've been the WILLSON 454 RZ-4. Either way, That has got to be one of my all time favorite tubas. I played one at TMEA one year and fell in love with it. Those rotors were lighting fast and you couldnt hear them.

Davy · Post by **Davy** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:46 pm

I really don't find much difference between rotors and pistons. I feel that I play the same either way. And also, I might be the black sheep here, but I am rather fond of my school's YBB-641. It might be a horn that is out of the consistancy loop, and better, but that is what I find.

I mean no offense to any one in saying this, but I find it one of my pet peeves to find people talking about a horn and how much soul the sound has. Granted, I am just a "Dumb" high school kid, but isin't it the player who puts the soul into any horn

I might be wrong there, but thats how I feel; I really don't mean to "shoot anyone down" by saying this.

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:44 pm

My feeling is that only a small percentage of people who use this forum have enough experience with different horns to really express a cogent opinion based on reality. I am not one of them. I've only played piston horns and not very good ones at that.

My problems with valves has always come down to the when and where to press them and let them go, not their construction and design. (And clankiness. Hate clankiness.) I would be willing to say that, except for the small percentage mentioned above, that is the only real problem most of the readers of this forum have also. Please don't be offended by that comment- choose which group you are in yourself. I know which one I'm in. Better to work on real problems than worry about things that really don't matter.

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:52 pm

Davy wrote: I mean no offense ....I might be wrong there.....

Yes, Davy you are...

Everything is relative....I thought my E.M. Winston was a nice horn, until I played something better. Some will say Marzans suck.

I take no offence, but some horns just suck. I was trying to be nice.

Man, Tuben, that was harsh

...btw...how'd you get my picture?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:58 am

As you can see, I have both. I have played excellent examples of both. I have also played dogs of both kinds that should be scrapped.

The receiver and leadpipe diameter and geometry have a lot more to do with whether you feel like you're "filling up" the horn or if it is "sucking your air dry," more than the bore diameter, usually measured as the inside diameter of the second valve side, which is far removed from the receiver and leadpipe. It's also one of the main discussion items for a Miraphone 1291 vs a 1292. But I do agree I have to use a mouthpiece with a smaller throat on my 186 -- Curry 128D with a .325 throat and slightly rounded at the bottom cup to give a little more resistance and feedback, than I do with the Besson and its Wick 1, .332 throat and one of the deepest true funnels there is, since the Besson comp valveblock provides the resistance and feedback I need to help control my airflow.

Brucom · Post by **Brucom** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:23 am

Okay, I understand STFU.
What's NOOB?

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:16 am

Brucom wrote:What's NOOB?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:55 am

Thanks, olD!

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:46 pm

Instead of using acronyms or 'kiddie slang' why don't you guys just go ahead and say it! It means the same thing.

TubeNet

Rotor?

Rotor?

Au contraire.

Rotor?

NOOB

Re: NOOB