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What exactly does it mean when we describe a tuba as 3/4, 4/4, ect?

William Parlier wrote:I've wondered that myself. I mean.. I know that it is the size of the horn, but who decided how big 4/4 would be. Was it some guy that just decided one day. "This is it! This is the perfect tuba size!"

This is probably pretty close to the actual answer to the question.

jbaylies wrote:What exactly does it mean when we describe a tuba as 3/4, 4/4, ect?

I was told that it is based on how many barrels of beer a Tuba can hold.

At least the marketing people don't label tubas the way they label household things like detergent, where the smallest size is "large".

My guess is that the use of the 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 designation is taken from the upright string bass custom, where these labels are often used. If you look through a symphony bass section, you'll usually see a variety of volumes among the basses but with the same height. You'll also see these terms if you shop for an upright bass.

Bill Anderson

Is it not that 3/4 is small, 4/4 is standard size, 5/4 is large, 6/4 is very large.

There is no precise sizes - it depends on the manufacturers.

And some people consider a King 2341 to be a 4/4, but on the smaller end of the 4/4 range due to its small bore, in spite of its larger bell.

A Miraphone 186 is considered a 4/4 by everybody.

But as posted above, it is only really useful in comparing one manufacture's tubas to other tubas by the same manufacturer.

The reason is that there are so many variables in combinations of leadpipe length and geometry, bore through the valve block, bugle, throat diameter and rim diameter that it is just not really feasible to have any better a "definition."

Oh, and the real difference: number of beats per measure. The 4 as a denominator means a quarter note gets the beat in all cases.

billeuph wrote:At least the marketing people don't label tubas the way they label household things like detergent, where the smallest size is "large".

But even the smallest tubas are pretty large.

wchoc86 wrote:doesn't meinl-weston make a couple of 1/4 tubas?

i've never heard of a 2/4 though.

heh.

Sure you have. It's called a "quickstep."

wchoc86 wrote:doesn't meinl-weston make a couple of 1/4 tubas?

i've never heard of a 2/4 though.

MW lists their 11 as a '1/2' horn.

Rubberlips wrote:This subject reminds me of the useless custom of saying that tubas are in BBb, or CC or whatever.
Actually, they are in Bb or C.
A piccolo trumpet can be in Bb, a regular trumpet in Bb, a euphonium in Bb and a tuba in Bb. They're all in Bb. Period.

Except when they're not.

Rubberlips wrote:...OK, I'll spell it out...
... or in C or in F or in Eb.

Except when they're not.

Read what you said. Precision is of paramount importance.

Rubberlips wrote:This subject reminds me of the useless custom of saying that tubas are in BBb, or CC or whatever.
Actually, they are in Bb or C.
A piccolo trumpet can be in Bb, a regular trumpet in Bb, a euphonium in Bb and a tuba in Bb. They're all in Bb. Period.

Except when a Trumpet is in Bb.. it means it is IN B-FLAT as in the trumpet plays a C it will sound a Bb on a piano. When a Tuba player plays a C it will sound a C regardless if the the player is playing an F, Eb, BBb or CC. The double notes denote the range and register of the horn. a 'C' tuba is a french instrument (you know, for Bydlo) that is pitched a step higher than a Euphonium.

wchoc86 wrote:doesn't meinl-weston make a couple of 1/4 tubas?

i've never heard of a 2/4 though.


heh.

1/4? Sounds like an upright trumpet. Interesting image.

iiipopes wrote:And some people consider a King 2341 to be a 4/4, but on the smaller end of the 4/4 range due to its small bore, in spite of its larger bell.

A Miraphone 186 is considered a 4/4 by everybody.

But as posted above, it is only really useful in comparing one manufacture's tubas to other tubas by the same manufacturer.

The reason is that there are so many variables in combinations of leadpipe length and geometry, bore through the valve block, bugle, throat diameter and rim diameter that it is just not really feasible to have any better a "definition."

Oh, and the real difference: number of beats per measure. The 4 as a denominator means a quarter note gets the beat in all cases.

My measurements are close. I use the King 2341 as the reference for piston 4/4 and the Miraphone 186 as the rotary. Anything smaller is 3/4, larger 5/4 or up. My Rudy 4/4 is my idea of a good 5/4 tuba, the Weril a small 3/4. I posted a while ago what was the standard for F tuba's and the consensus was the old Alex F as a 4/4. IMHO.

wchoc86 wrote:doesn't meinl-weston make a couple of 1/4 tubas?

i've never heard of a 2/4 though.


heh.

A 2/4 would be a Euphonium .

1/4? ...sounds like a Baritone to me....

1/4 = kiddies tuba

From M-W website:

The smaller size and rugged construction make the model 11 an excellent choice for school music programs

I was once corrected by Ed Jones of the Ft Worth Symphony on this matter and have taken it to heart since then. His answer: 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 and 6/4 are whatever the manufacturer says it is. There is no "industry standard" because it is a subjective description by the maker.

What's the difference between a 186 and a 188? 4/4 and 5/5? Then what's a 1291?

If you are looking for a definition you are going to get a thousand opinions on this board and no "right" answer. Quit worrying about it and play the horn.

William Parlier wrote:We write CC and BBb, because the open notes they judge it off of is C2 and Bb2, or what ever note your horn my be pitched in.

You should study a little more theory before you say that. You don't have to put CC or BBb, but when tubas are listed for sell, they write it that way. You can't really change how it's been for probably over 100 years.

Perhaps you should study a little more theory, as well. The CC tuba is "judged off of" C1 (scientific designation), which corresponds to the open pedal note of the instrument. C2 is the C two ledger lines below the bass clef staff and is the first partial of the overtone series of the CC tuba. C2 (65.406 Hz) is written in the Helmholtz system as "C".

CC (32.703Hz) is just the English convention of writing the Helmholtz designation "C," (that comma should be a sub-prime symbol, which I can't make here and is replaced in the English notation with a repeated C). CCC would be C0, or 16.352 Hz.

I'm with Rubberlips on this one...the BBb/CC thing is useless and inaccurate...if you're going to use the Helmholtz designation of the fundamental pitch of a tuba, it should be a BBBb tuba...euphonium and trombone have a fundamental pitch of BBb. We should also use EEb and FF to be literal, but no one seems to mind using just F and Eb for those instruments.

Alex C wrote:I was once corrected by Ed Jones of the Ft Worth Symphony on this matter and have taken it to heart since then. His answer: 3/4, 4/4, 5/4 and 6/4 are whatever the manufacturer says it is. There is no "industry standard" because it is a subjective description by the maker.

What's the difference between a 186 and a 188? 4/4 and 5/5? Then what's a 1291?

If you are looking for a definition you are going to get a thousand opinions on this board and no "right" answer. Quit worrying about it and play the horn.

You're no fun

http://www.rickdenney.com/tubas_compared.htm

Rick "thinking it means whatever people think it means" Denney