Eb to BBb

[TubaRay]

Wouldn't this be roughly equivalent to going to a barbershop to get my hair lengthened?

[djwesp]

Wouldn't this be roughly equivalent to going to a barbershop to get my hair lengthened?

Are you implying that shorter is better?



*cringes at the trumpet like implications*

[TubaRay]

hair extension tuba extension same rough idea but I want to know if a tuba extension has or can be done(decently at least.)

I would have to suppose that lengthening the tubing on a tuba would have a higher success rate than that of lengthening the hair. My comment in this thread was only my feeble attempt at humor. Oh well.

[Dan Schultz]

Theory suggests that it might be possible to make an Eb tuba into a BBb tuba but you have to understand that whenever you modify a horn by adding or taking away tubing, the outcome is pretty much a crap-shoot. You would need to add approximately 4 1/2 feet of tubing to the open bugle and 33% to the length of all the valve circuits. If you add that much straight-bore tubing to the open bugle, I can just about guarantee that the results would not be great. This would amount to about the same thing as taking a four-valve (with the fourth valved tuned to the 1-3 combination), tying down the fourth valve and trying to play it using BBb fingerings. In theory, you can do it, but... the results are marginal at best.

[Art Hovey]

If your Eb tuba has a 4th valve, try playing it with the 4th valve held down and the slides on the 1st 3 pulled out. (If it has only 3, then just pull the slide way out, hold them all down, and play bugle calls.) You may notice that the instrument is rather stuffy and unsatisfying to play that way, because of all the cylindrical tubing that has been added. That's what you will get if you lengthen your Eb tuba to BBb.
A tuba wants to have conical bore (tapered tubing) as much as possible. Every inch of cylindrical tubing that is added to it detracts from its naturally mellow and easy-blowing nature. The nice thing about a BBb tuba is the rich, fat sound you can get in the low register, due to the large-diameter tubing going into the bell. With a stretched Eb tuba you would not get that. You would get the worst of both worlds.

[Tubaing]

....and the key is not important its more the thought of going the other way in key change.

Like CC to BBb? http://thevillagetinker.com/projects.htm

[Dan Schultz]

2 things I did'nt say I owened a Eb, at least yet and second who said any thing about tuba I want to try and leave this some what open so sosua should be included. and the key is not important its more the thought of going the other way in key change.

HUH!??

A sousa is nothing more than a tuba that's wrapped a bit differently. The same rules apply. Adding cylindrical tubing or cutting conical bores is still a crap-shoot. Here are the approximate lengths of different keys of tubas. From those lengths, you can develop percentages to figure how much you need to cut or add to the valve circuits. You can figure it out from there:

BBb Tuba - 18 ft. open bugle
CC Tuba - 16 ft. open bugle
Eb tuba - 13.5 ft. open bugle
F Tuba - 12 ft. open bugle

Note that the above lengths are only theoretical 'starting points' and there are many things that can come into play when designing/building a horn. The tapers, the 'bell effects', and nodal points are just a few. If you do decide to create a different keyed horn by adding or removing tubing, be prepared to do some 'fiddling' with the components. And, above all... this is never a guarantee as to the outcome. Great horns weren't created on the 'first shot'. Great horns are the result of loads of theory application, much prototyping, and many failures.

[The Big Ben]

BBb Tuba - 18 ft. open bugle
CC Tuba - 16 ft. open bugle
Eb tuba - 13.5 ft. open bugle
F Tuba - 12 ft. open bugle

The numbers explain it really well.

I remember that about 6-9 months ago, Baltimore Brass had a horn for sale that was an Eb converted into a CC. Maybe 2.5 feet of tubing could be put into an Eb with satisfactory results- I remember that someone said they had played that horn and it was "OK". Another 2 feet would be kinda hard- maybe a big cone-like thing sticking out of the bell with a donut thing on top??

Jeff "Mmmmmm.... Donuts!" Benedict

[Wyvern]

BBb Tuba - 18 ft. open bugle
CC Tuba - 16 ft. open bugle
Eb tuba - 13.5 ft. open bugle
F Tuba - 12 ft. open bugle

Interesting looking at those lengths that CC is almost midway between BBb and Eb. Explains how a CC feels quite a bit different from a BBb (IMO), having a lot of the agility of an Eb, while retaining the depth of tone of the BBb.

[Alex C]

Now my question is people mention cutting down tubas but what of the opposite, can it be done? has any one had it done? if so why did nobody tell me about it?

So, judging from your responses to posts, this is a hypothetical question. You weren't very clear about that and seemed to take issue with some of the responses. The mis-communication was in your original post.

The hypothetical answer you've been given is "yes." The posters presented some problems you'd encounter, and you shouldn't dismiss those but the switch from Eb to BBb (or CC) is not uncommon. For a recent example:

The Conn 5X-J's and the King 2341 were all designed starting from a King EEb tuba body, a 1930's design, if I remember correctly. The people I talked to said that there was actually very little work done to the body of the Eb to make it the 5X-J CC. I would really love to hear what Matt Walters, the disigner, has to say about it but I'm sure he will remain professionally aloof.

The old theory used to be that you could cut cylindrical tubing out of a horn without much of an effect but cutting tapered tubing would cause a lot of problems. I have since come to disagree with that, taking a more "organic" appreciation of instrument construction than I used to have.

If you have a good Eb, don't take the risk of screwing it up to make a good F or CC or BBb out of it.

If you have a bad Eb, it will probably end up being no better in any other key tuba.

[Tubaing]

...The hypothetical answer you've been given is "yes." The posters presented some problems you'd encounter, and you shouldn't dismiss those but the switch from Eb to BBb (or CC) is not uncommon....

The old theory used to be that you could cut cylindrical tubing out of a horn without much of an effect but cutting tapered tubing would cause a lot of problems. I have since come to disagree with that, taking a more "organic" appreciation of instrument construction than I used to have.

If you have a good Eb, don't take the risk of screwing it up to make a good F or CC or BBb out of it.

If you have a bad Eb, it will probably end up being no better as any other key tuba.

Makes me wonder wonder how the Meinl Weston 3044 F/CC
at Dillon plays.

[markaustinhowle]

I am converting a York Eb to CC and I made some pics of it. In this case though I put part of a BBb tuba together with the body and bell of an Eb to make the CC. Usually it isn't this simple. I'd hate to have to make the conversion just by soldering on additional tubing somewhere.

Good luck with your plans.

[tofu]

[markaustinhowle]

Interesting project - how does it play?

I am really excited about the way this tuba plays. I have roughed in a couple of solos (after brushing up on my CC fingerings) and am really pleased with response, pitch and tone. It is really easy to play this thing in tune.

Its a smooth sounding horn.

MAH

[markaustinhowle]

I suspect a little sharp on every note that involves depressing a valve or more than one valve. Do you plan to re-adjust all four tuning slides when adding the C trigger?

I cut the BBb valve section down to CC so it doesn't play sharp with any of the valves. I still have to acquire the tubing for the 5th rotor that is pictured on the back of the tuba. This 5th valve will be a long whole step which will essentially put the tuba in BBb when it is pushed down.

Hey, what kind of MP do you want to sell?

MAH

[OldsRecording]

When I was marching in senior drum & bugle corps (early '90's), there was a guy who competed in Individual and Ensemble at championships using a (as a contrabass) Mirafone 186 with the 4th valve disabled and extra tubing to put the horn in G, and I always wondered about the wisdom behind that. (BTW I beat him using an Olds Ultratone valve/rotor)