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if it's an older mirafone, it could be a sharpish 2/3 combination for the 5th valve. I used to have a 185 and i played low f with 2-3-5. I also have a pre-perantuci b&s with this system.

I also own a "modern" 184 with the normal flatish 1st valve 5th valve. I find this system better because one can tune a Db really well with 2-3-5, but the "old" mirafone 185 was a much better tuba...

What tuba kitchen said. I have an older 184 and the 5th valve is equivalent to 2/3.

Probably a 2/3 combination but not "the old" system nor is it "not the normal flat 1st valve" idea. Maybe because I am very old it seems to me the flat 1st is the "new fangled fad" but, as long as I have played 5 valve horns, I have used the 2/3 combination for the 5th valve and find it much more useful. Several manufactures make either system available, however, to this day. I play Willson 3400S and find the 2/3 for 5th extremely useful for low range work. Not only does it improve intonation but it allows for some alternate fingerings which will speed up some passages. However, if you have never worked with 2/3 for 5th valve, you will probably not gain anything by changing your fingering habits to accommodate it. But for us oldies . . .

bill wrote:Probably a 2/3 combination but not "the old" system nor is it "not the normal flat 1st valve" idea. Maybe because I am very old it seems to me the flat 1st is the "new fangled fad" but, as long as I have play 5 valve horns, I have used the 2/3 combination for the 5th valve and find it much more useful. Several manufactures make either system available, however, to this day. I play Willson 3400S and find the 2/3 for 5th extremely useful for low range work. Not only does it improve intonation but it allows for some alternate fingerings which will speed up some passages. However, if you have never worked with 2/3 for 5th valve, you will probably not gain anything by changing your fingering habits to accommodate it. But for us oldies . . .

Me too!

I've got a Gronitz CC with the "normal" flat whole step. Then I've got a 184 with the 2/3 5th and a Gronitz F that I use the tritone 5th with. My friends don't know how I do it.

jtuba wrote:My friends don't know how I do it.

Bet your enemies don't, either!

jtuba wrote:I've got a Gronitz CC with the "normal" flat whole step. Then I've got a 184 with the 2/3 5th and a Gronitz F that I use the tritone 5th with. My friends don't know how I do it.

I've tried to play all 3 of these, and he's right, I have no idea how he does it!!!

My situation is rather like that of Elephant -- my 184 is a 2-3, but my Gnagey and Neptune are both flat-1's. I've had the 184 for more than 30 years, and was perfectly FDH with that set-up. When I found my Alex (now Tuben's "Wizard") I was delighted not to have to learn a new system - but after I found the Gnagey I had to sell it.

I'm now into my 3rd year using both systems. I'm ashamed to admit, I find the 5th valve more user-friendly on the Gnagey and Neptune! In some keys the Neptune's open first line g tends sharp, so on sustained tones I play that 3-5. On both the Gnagey and Neptune, the low F locks in great with 4-5. On the 184, 1-2-4 is just acceptable. And below F, the flat whole step gives me better solutions pitch-wise than on the Mirafone.

bloke wrote:If one or the other of your 2-4 combination pitches (C# or F#) are out-of-tune, you can use the old-style Mirafone "G#" 5th valve (in conjunction with 1 & 2...I think ...??...It's been a l-o-n-g time) to remedy the problem.

My 190 BBb had the 2-3 style 5th valve, and 1-2-5 was just a hair flat, while the 2-4 combination was very sharp.