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My Highschool doesn't offer Music theory, and neither does my music school at the location close to me. I am unable to travel the 30 miles 1-2 times a week to the main music school that teaches it.

Does anyone reccommend any self study materials that could be helpful. Or a cheap, online course? I do have access to teachers that can help me if I get stuck, but cannot me my formal teachers.

I'm not 100 percent certain, but I'm pretty sure that there is a sight-singing portion of the test. If you have never done much of that before, than it might be a little rough. Also, brush up on your NH tones!

Sightsinging is a resource I have a teacher readily avaliable for. Through Basic music theory, I have also learned my Aural skills, and can dictate Harmonic and Medodic intervals pretty well.

This is what I used before I got into college. helped me out a lot.
http://www.musictheory.halifax.ns.ca/

It used to be around $25-30, but the price has went up since I've bought it.

This site has helped me out even after I've taken all my college theory classes...http://www.dolmetsch.com/theoryintro.htm

Hope that helps

tubashaman wrote:3 words: waste of money


Most universities require a theory placement exam you will take and be able to test out of classes based upon your test score on that

I don't personally think that it is going to be a waste of money. Right now, if I took the theory placement exam I would probably get a low score on it. My HS music theory class was very slow moving, and I didn't learn much.

When I prepare for the AP I will learn a lot more and be able to score better on the Theory Placement exams for college.

Richardrichard9 wrote:

tubashaman wrote:3 words: waste of money


Most universities require a theory placement exam you will take and be able to test out of classes based upon your test score on that

I don't personally think that it is going to be a waste of money. Right now, if I took the theory placement exam I would probably get a low score on it. My HS music theory class was very slow moving, and I didn't learn much.

When I prepare for the AP I will learn a lot more and be able to score better on the Theory Placement exams for college.

I understand where you're coming from. My school didn't even offer music theory. After I did some self taught stuff I felt more comfortable with the material when I got to college. It's sad, but a lot of freshman quit because of that one class (maybe ear training, too )

but maybe that's not such a sad thing...

tubashaman wrote:how much does an AP exam cost you. My AP exams were 50 a piece, Texas paid for $30 of it

I remember those....I took 9 of them.....what a waste of money...even though I passed 4 of them with a high score

AP's are about $84 now, but through grants and financial aid, I believe I pay less than $20

Richardrichard9 wrote:I do have access to teachers that can help me if I get stuck, but cannot me my formal teachers.

I'm a little bit confused by this line. Is there a requirement that someone you are already studying with in another capacity cannot be your adviser for this test? Even if that's the case, you could always seek out another private instructor. If you can pay, I guarantee they'll line up to teach you. Whatever you do, stay away from those horrid Kjos theory workbooks that everyone is using. They are truly awful. You might want to check with the colleges you are thinking about applying to in order to find out which theory books they use.

In any case, you'll probably want to consult at least once with a real live teacher before taking any tests. I just missed testing out of the first semester of college theory simply because I was unfamiliar with a few conventions that I could have mastered in a couple of hours of study, and had to endure countless hours of tedium as a result. I remember there was one kid who aced that test. He subsequently asked if they would let him take a test for semester 2; the answer was that there was no such test, and he would start in semester 2 no matter what. So be prepared for that possibility also.

And don't forget that theory is only a means to an end. Sometimes we let the demands of formal education obscure the ultimate reason why we undertake certain tasks. Some people don't need theory; others live by it.

Stefan Kac wrote:

Richardrichard9 wrote:I do have access to teachers that can help me if I get stuck, but cannot me my formal teachers.

I'm a little bit confused by this line. Is there a requirement that someone you are already studying with in another capacity cannot be your adviser for this test? Even if that's the case, you could always seek out another private instructor. If you can pay, I guarantee they'll line up to teach you. Whatever you do, stay away from those horrid Kjos theory workbooks that everyone is using. They are truly awful. You might want to check with the colleges you are thinking about applying to in order to find out which theory books they use.

In any case, you'll probably want to consult at least once with a real live teacher before taking any tests. I just missed testing out of the first semester of college theory simply because I was unfamiliar with a few conventions that I could have mastered in a couple of hours of study, and had to endure countless hours of tedium as a result. I remember there was one kid who aced that test. He subsequently asked if they would let him take a test for semester 2; the answer was that there was no such test, and he would start in semester 2 no matter what. So be prepared for that possibility also.

And don't forget that theory is only a means to an end. Sometimes we let the demands of formal education obscure the ultimate reason why we undertake certain tasks. Some people don't need theory; others live by it.

What I mean is that I have a Chorus and band teacher, that arer willing to help me on a limited basis. But because of scheduling, they cannot be my permenant teachers.

The problem is I really don't have the money to take private theory lessons. The place where I was to originally take the class (Hochstein School of music) charges me very little with Financial aid, so I was hoping on being able to take it there.

Wow! How did people in my generation ever get into college as music majors without AP Music Theory (or any theory class) and other preparations?

Hopefully, universities haven't gotten so hardhearted these days as to not allow a gifted musician to be a music major just because they had no theory training prior to admission. Here's a little secret about college theory and harmony classes: They don't expect you to know anything before you get in.

If you can read music in treble and bass clef... If you know where all the sharps and flats go in the key signature... If you know anything about rhythm... then this is basically all you need to know for first year theory.

Don't try to know too much as you might be taught incorrectly... There are many rules in harmony which aren't generally followed by composers of any genre (parallel fifths, for example). You might want to get acquainted with the names of the intervals (prime, second, third, fifth, sixth, tritone, octave, etc.) But don't worry too much...

Ear training, called "musicianship" in some universities, is the big killer for most students. Just stick with it and work hard. It's not something you can cram for. There is usually a laboratory that goes with this class. Use all the lab time you can. (And be careful what you listen to in your free time.)

For some music students, the most difficult hurdle is mastery of the piano. I am not a piano player and I had to pass barriers for both my undergraduate and graduate programs. (If I can do it, anyone can do it.)

Don't try to do too much before you get into college.

Lately, I have been advising young people NOT to major in music. The only music I do right now (jobwise) is some playing on a local TV station for special events and making arrangements for the same organization. My "day job" is associate professor of communication at a rural university in Southern Vietnam. Actually, my musical training helped me a lot for this job.

If you want to work as a tuba player, I suggest you spend all your time doing things with your tuba and worry about the music theory and ear training when you get to college.

tubashaman wrote:how much does an AP exam cost you. My AP exams were 50 a piece, Texas paid for $30 of it

I remember those....I took 9 of them.....what a waste of money...even though I passed 4 of them with a high score

I disagree with your statement regarding the AP program being a waste of money. $50 for the test (hell, even $100) is peanuts compared to the cost of enrolling in college to get the same amount of credit. The tests I took in high school allowed me to bypass all but two of my general education requirements at the University of Iowa and provided me with more than thirty hours of credit - or approximately two semesters' worth. $500 worth of AP tests compared to $10,000 - $20,000 per academic year? As long as you perform well on the tests, I fail to see how you could be harmed by such a sound investment.

tubashaman wrote:I remember those....I took 9 of them.....what a waste of money...even though I passed 4 of them with a high score

Hence the waste of money

MartyNeilan wrote:

tubashaman wrote:I remember those....I took 9 of them.....what a waste of money...even though I passed 4 of them with a high score

Hence the waste of money

I suppose it would be a waste if you didn't study to pass it. I intend on passing it. Even if the college doesn't accept it for credit, passing an AP when the course isn't offered at my school looks good on college applications.

http://www.musictheory.net/

http://www.dolmetsch.com/theoryintro.htm

decent, if not great and totally in-depth, FREE places to start.

William Parlier wrote:I agree with some of the people above. You are a bit too worried about the theory, and need to worry about your instrument. Usually the more you study into scales, and the more you play, a lot of it comes to you. I know that's how I learned my rythem's key signature, and relative minors and majors.

I've seen people get into composition programs in conservatories, and they didn't know much at all about theory. Not many high schools in the country offer theory classes either. I know none of the school in my old district did and most colleges understand that.

I plan on Double Majoring in Performance and Music Ed (or if I can't get into the double degree program just Music Ed.)

So I think I should put more emphasis on Theory than a performance only major.

Richardrichard9 wrote:

William Parlier wrote:I agree with some of the people above. You are a bit too worried about the theory, and need to worry about your instrument. Usually the more you study into scales, and the more you play, a lot of it comes to you. I know that's how I learned my rythem's key signature, and relative minors and majors.

I've seen people get into composition programs in conservatories, and they didn't know much at all about theory. Not many high schools in the country offer theory classes either. I know none of the school in my old district did and most colleges understand that.

I plan on Double Majoring in Performance and Music Ed (or if I can't get into the double degree program just Music Ed.)

So I think I should put more emphasis on Theory than a performance only major.

Be careful with all the extra studying for Theory anyhow....my experience is, if you have a lot of knowledge of music theory, you may not have as much theory growing room in a college music school. That is, unless you're a theory major, you will mostly be taking basic/intermediate music theory. And in fact, at my school (and a couple others) Mus Ed and Performance majors take the same amount of theory, and actually the performance are required to take one more theory-like class than Ed majors. You can of course take more advanced theory as electives, but being double-majoring AND being an Ed major, you may not want to be in school forever anyway.

I agree with statements above. Take time to really work out things on your main instrument. It will help your theory/aural skills and also really affect your auditions. Get into school...that's the main thing.

And to disagree with your last statment, being an Ed major doesn't mean you should put more emphasis on learning theory....ALL MUSICIANS should learn theory because it is useful in all music making, not just teaching.

So....to put it short, work on your horn, study what theory you can, but unless you're planning to be a comp. or theory major, don't sweat it so much.

All good advice "bloke".

I have to agree with you 100%

now.....don't you owe me a couple of cents for that agreement???

excellent!!! I am now only 999,997 pennies away from another tuba......

Richardrichard9 wrote:

William Parlier wrote:I agree with some of the people above. You are a bit too worried about the theory, and need to worry about your instrument. Usually the more you study into scales, and the more you play, a lot of it comes to you. I know that's how I learned my rythem's key signature, and relative minors and majors.

I've seen people get into composition programs in conservatories, and they didn't know much at all about theory. Not many high schools in the country offer theory classes either. I know none of the school in my old district did and most colleges understand that.

I plan on Double Majoring in Performance and Music Ed (or if I can't get into the double degree program just Music Ed.)

So I think I should put more emphasis on Theory than a performance only major.

I never heard of anyone who successfully graduated this way. You will choose one. You might be an educator who plays good tuba. Don't bite off more than you can chew. It's going to cost more than it's worth.

Richardrichard9 wrote:

William Parlier wrote:I agree with some of the people above. You are a bit too worried about the theory, and need to worry about your instrument. Usually the more you study into scales, and the more you play, a lot of it comes to you. I know that's how I learned my rythem's key signature, and relative minors and majors.

I've seen people get into composition programs in conservatories, and they didn't know much at all about theory. Not many high schools in the country offer theory classes either. I know none of the school in my old district did and most colleges understand that.

I plan on Double Majoring in Performance and Music Ed (or if I can't get into the double degree program just Music Ed.)

So I think I should put more emphasis on Theory than a performance only major.

Just to get it out up-front, I am strongly for getting a bachelor's in music ed., as opposed to a performance degree. You can try getting both, but that would probably amount to an ungodly amount of work, at almost anywhere you would look to earn these degrees. As for the recommendation that you just go for a performance degree, this is what I have to say about it. Say you play really well, get a performance bachelor's, maybe a graduate degree or two. Now, say you get up one morning, slip on the floor and crack your jaw open. Chances are you could probably never play the same again, and now your handful of performance degrees are all but useless. Now, don't get me wrong here; I think that graduate performance degrees can be a good and useful item. But as a bachelor's degree, performance seems to me to be fairly useless. If you go for a music ed. degree, you have something that you can turn into a healthy and rewarding career, (assuming you are the type of person who can and want to be a good music teacher.) Then again, that's just my two cents on the issue...