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I've been told that Roger Bobo recorded a pedal C on a recorder, slowed the tape down to half speed so that it would sound an octave lower and then got used to the sound of it, and just used his tongue to make the vibrations. Im pretty sure that's how it's done.

I use my 822 F for this piece. I can get up to high D's and E's with it and also get down to the DDDD. Great horn. I'd recomend it for this piece!

Since I'm playing this piece for my recital I'll chime in...

I play it on my YFB-621 with a Schilke 69C4 mouthpiece, this way the high notes pop out solid without sacrificing tone quality. I personally think it works on either tuba, F or CC, so long as you can hit the high notes accurately. The opening E in the staff crescendo actually sounds much better on my Gronitz (of course, I can peel paint with that thing ...)

Roger did in fact record the pedal C and play it back at half speed to hear the low C an octave below pedal C. I tried it myself, it works well. To be honest the low C really isn't an audible pitch, just a vibration pattern.

Hope this helps

If you were playing this live, I would use the tounge to make the vibration sound like a CCCC. If you try it out, it actually sounds mimics the sound that a CCCC would be. As someone just said, a note that low has no real audible pitch, it just a really slow virbation.

Well, its not so much an issue of hearing the really low C or having the recording equipment there at the recital. You would use the recorder in practice sessions to get an idea about how the note should sound i.e. at what speed you'll need to "tongue" to create the vibration desired. The idea is kinda like what Oystein Baadsvik does in Fnugg, with the "leap beat". You're articulating in a manner imitative of the vibration of the low C because, as my teachers have told me, that note isn't really a "note" so much as it's a vibration.

I talked to my teacher Norm Pearson about Roger's recordings. He recorded the Encounters twice, once on CC and once on F if I remember correctly. I think he re-recorded it because there were things he didn't like about the first recording. I don't know which recording was on CC and which was on F though. Roger may have played the "Bobo" model Yamaha f tuba (tuba the YFB 821 is based upon), I'm not sure, probably not the 621. I don't know which CC tuba he used ... maybe a miraphone?

It's probably not that Kraft didn't have the knowledge necessary for writing tuba music, I think he was writing a piece "very especially" for Roger, and he had to challenge him somehow. Kraft tries to push the limits of the tuba to get as much out of it as he can.

As far as Hindemith goes: From what I understand, Hindemith played everything he wrote for. But, he couldn't play the tuba that well. The result of this, since Hindemith played piano better than tuba, was that the piano part ended up harder than the solo tuba part.

I recently discovered that I can go down to the F BELOW the CCCC on my Eb horn without the use of any gimmicks (it's very soft, but the note is audible...I've had MANY of my friends listen to me play it to confirm that I'm really hitting the note). I talked to my tuba professor about that because, when I was just playing on by BBb, the best I could get was the Eb above the CCCC. He said that he experienced the same phenomenon when he first got his F tuba when he was in Grad school. I think that it has to do with the fact that it's a smaller horn, which makes it a lot easier to focus and control the sound. Plus, because it's a smaller bore than my BBb, there's a lot more resistance from the horn, which makes it easier to slow my buzz down to super slow speeds (the F I referred to is only 10.9 cycles per second!). Needless to say, whenever I get around to working on Encounters II, I'm going to be playing it on my Eb. That way, not only will I be able to pop out that CCCC with (relative) ease, I'll also be able to be much more secure in the high-range stuff.

tubashaman wrote:It seems like Kraft didnt have full working knowledge of the tuba (and im still debating if hindemith did as they say he did)

What about Hindemith's writing makes you think he didn't have a full working knowledge of the tuba?

Listen to the Glen Gould recording of the Hindemith and you'll realize that Hindemith knew EXACTLY what he was doing with both the tuba and the piano.

the alan bear cd (coast to coast) have a good recording of the encounters II

I had the opportunity to hear Kraft, himself, speak about this piece a few months ago.

Remember that his background/specialty was percussion.

He said that he didn't know too much about the tuba, so he spent a few days with Bobo demonstrating all the sounds that he could make with it. Then he wrote the piece.

L.A.'s Southwest Chamber Orchestra will be releasing a recording of the entire Encounters series within the next year or two.

tubashaman wrote:
The first 2 movements of his tuba sonate sound like random orchesrtral support lines, the 3rd is musical....

This sounds like a problem of interpretation. The first two movements can be incredibly musical if played well.

Its hard to do...very hard. I found that out when I thought that because of it's lack of high notes and hard licks I could save it till the end of my recital prep.. I was wrong. This is the hardest thing on my recital by far, but is very rewarding to play well.