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I had my progress orals tuesday, and they decided to ask me what I felt was an interesting question.

"What do you feel would be a good beginner tuba for a late junior high/high school student, should it be a three vavle or four valve, and should it be rotary or piston valves?"

I would like to get everyones thoughts on it.

4 valve piston.

You only have to use 3, but the 4th is there to use if the student is good enough.

Pistons because they are simpler and less likely to damage than rotary action.

tubashaman wrote:But in the long piston vs rotary IS ALL PREFERENCE

But what does a beginning tuba player know? Decisions like these have to be made for them by people who do know.

Beginner horn...late JH or HS

Too many variables that conflict. Is it a HS level person switching from a different instrument? OR, a JH player just starting off?

younger than JH I would say get convertibles for marching (much as I hate them).

JH can handle a 3/4 or smaller 4/4 easily for the most part.

I'd have to say pistons. Too many small screws and things in rotors to keep up with.

for a beginner, 3 valves. I'd prefer having a couple of 4 valve tubas around for more advanced players.

windshieldbug wrote:4 valve piston.

You only have to use 3, but the 4th is there to use if the student is good enough.

Pistons because they are simpler and less likely to damage than rotary action.

Ditto.

the elephant wrote:That is a very large can of worms for them to open, since there is absolutely zero correct answer and is totally based on opinion.

Which makes it the perfect question to ask on an oral exam.

wchoc86 wrote:

Greg wrote:That's very good. I would like to see that put into effect in more districts. Though it is in my district to an extent. Every student pays an "Arts fee" this money is then used to repair and maintain instrument.

yea, i don't see why it wouldn't be that way in any district. If you break somebody else's **** you either pay to fix it or buy a new one, is that not how life works?

Not if the person who owns the **** is desparate to build his participation numbers and will put up with almost anything if it means having enough sousaphone carriers to spell "FAIRVIEW".

Greg wrote:I have no proof that it wasn't there previously.

So, you admit that it WAS there!?

Since by late middle school/early high school, an aspiring tuba player has most of his/her growth, he/she doesn't need a 3/4 horn. There is only one long-term viable option: King 2341.

Good tone, good intonation, good ergonomics, including the 4th valve, nested valve cluster so it is rather protected and easier to work on than either an upright or a rotary, smaller .687 bore so it is easier to blow, it's not "mouthpiece sensitive" so you can match the mouthpiece to the size of the student's embouchure and stage of development, and it has been made in one form or another for over a century, so when an accident does happen, any repairman worth his tools should have a wall full of "crash parts" to keep it going.

tubaclock wrote:I believe the pistons take more maintenance and are more likely to be dropped when taken out to oil.

Which is why there are so many rotary-valve trumpets used in the schools...

Greg wrote:
Somebody opened their door into my car the other day and left a dent and a scratch. Who is going to pay for it? It's not enough damage for a police report and I have no proof that it wasn't there previously.

For the sake of venting and one-upmanship, today I was T-Boned at an all-way stop by an uninsured driver. He didn't even have license plates on the car.

Who tells middle school students how to take valves out to oil them? I was. The people I went to school with were. We were taught properly. We were expected to take care of the instruments. Our school music program was and is the best in the state, routinely bringing home more I ratings at contest than a lot of the rest of the schools put together.

Middle school students, as well as 5th and 6th grade students can and should be taught from the beginning proper horn personal maintenance. It is just as important as sticking your face in it and blow. We would spend some days in class just having the proper techniques demonstrated. So even though I play brass, from observing my director and classmates through the years I can also maintain woodwinds and percussion as need be.

I had a friend who played saxophone. I routinely had to help him with sticking keys and working through alternate fingering difficulties. He, in turn, helped me with my tone.

Anybody who thinks otherwise is not investing the proper time and priorities in their curriculum in teaching band.

Elephant, I really like your posts. What are these tubas from Bloke that you mention? I've recommended the Kings and people seem pretty happy. I had a repairman install amado water keys on my school's Kings at the sharp turn under the 4th valve that has saved us some time getting the H2O out. Still, the quality has been a problem. The St. Petersburgs, aside from their playing characteristics, have had major problems with finish and falling apart. Those monstrous cases are completely impractical as well.

the elephant wrote:Bloke saved me on that buy of five for my friend. He had those great little horns for such a good price. This friend replaced three four year old YBB-105s and one really beat up YBB-103 (that schleppy would love). He is really happy with what he got from Joe. I would heartily advise that a non-tubist MS/JH director in need of tubas talk to Joe. He is a no-BS guy that sells very decent stuff that he describes honestly and accurately.

13

I believe the rotary BBb horns that bloke likes are the (formerly) East German Weltklangs, and their stencils.

sloan wrote:

the elephant wrote:That is a very large can of worms for them to open, since there is absolutely zero correct answer and is totally based on opinion.

Which makes it the perfect question to ask on an oral exam.

Yup. This was my thinking as I opened this thread for the first time.

Teachers don't ask questions on tests because they don't know the answers. They ask them to see if the student knows the answer, and can defend it with sound thinking and a good understanding of the relevant facts. I suspect a well-formed answer could lead as easily to a rotary tuba as to a piston tuba, but a good teacher will be far more interested in what makes it well formed.

Rick "happy to argue in favor of plastic sousaphones" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:
Rick "happy to argue in favor of plastic sousaphones" Denney

While 50% is for intelligently defending the answer, it's still true that the other 50% is for producing a *reasonable* answer.

Denney: 51/100

sloan wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:
Rick "happy to argue in favor of plastic sousaphones" Denney

While 50% is for intelligently defending the answer, it's still true that the other 50% is for producing a *reasonable* answer.

Denney: 51/100

I've often been accused of intelligently defending the wrong answer. Nothing is more unsatisfying, of course. If it was intelligently defended, then it should be been at least reasonably persuasive (assuming the professor is not narrow-minded). If it was utterly unpersuasive, then how could have been intelligently defended?

Rick "'Mozart, you are passionate, but you do not persuade'" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

sloan wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:
Rick "happy to argue in favor of plastic sousaphones" Denney

While 50% is for intelligently defending the answer, it's still true that the other 50% is for producing a *reasonable* answer.

Denney: 51/100

I've often been accused of intelligently defending the wrong answer. Nothing is more unsatisfying, of course.

Sounds like an attorney with his conscience bothering him.

Rick Denney wrote:I've often been accused of intelligently defending the wrong answer. Nothing is more unsatisfying, of course. If it was intelligently defended, then it should be been at least reasonably persuasive...

Most of what I did in my "former life" was exactly that. Ultimately, it is unsatisfying.

iiipopes wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:I've often been accused of intelligently defending the wrong answer. Nothing is more unsatisfying, of course. If it was intelligently defended, then it should be been at least reasonably persuasive...

Most of what I did in my "former life" was exactly that. Ultimately, it is unsatisfying.

Many "professional" musicians find themselves in a similar situation all the time: skillfully presenting to the audience music that has long since lost all charm for the performers.

That great philosopher Rick(y) Nelson had a few things to say about this.