Insurance in Canada

[Geotuba]

Reading threads about insurance here I followed up by calling Clarion insurance. Their website appears to accept Canadian addresses at first but then rejects them. So I phoned. All very suspicious - they want me to use a relative or friend's address in the USA and pay everything with a credit card or cheque drawn on a US bank (what a pain). I am concerned that ,if I went this route in the event of a claim, they would reject it because I had "misrepresented" facts (i.e. giving the US address)

So - can anyone recommend unsuspicious coverage in Canada and, ideally, can anyone in Canada report having made a successful claim ?

Thanks

[Toobist]

This company is out of Windsor and specializes in musical instruments. It's very popular with the TMA.

http://www.torontomusicians.org/insurance.php


P.S. How's the show going?

[Tortuba]

Hugh, check with your household insurance policy agent/issuer.

I insured my horn under my household insurance. It only cost a minimum amount for the annual "rider" on the policy.

I was advised by my agent to insure it for twice my purchase price - so that I could replace it if necessary.

All the insurance company needed was a description of the horn and a serial number. But, a photo would also help.

Keith

[JB]

Hugh, check with your household insurance policy agent/issuer.

I insured my horn under my household insurance. It only cost a minimum amount for the annual "rider" on the policy.

I was advised by my agent to insure it for twice my purchase price - so that I could replace it if necessary.

All the insurance company needed was a description of the horn and a serial number. But, a photo would also help.

Keith

You might want to double check what their policy says if the instrument is used for professional work versus amateur use.

In some places and with some companies, use for earning $ will sink being covered on the home policy. If used for income, and your agent still says it will be covered under the household policy, be sure to get that in writing from the agent.

[sungfw]

If used for income, and your agent still says it will be covered under the household policy, be sure to get that in writing from the agent.

Insurance companies are not contractually bound by the errors, omissions, and/or (mis)representations of their agents, so getting it in writing from the agent will not protect you if there is a discrepancy between the word of an agent and the actual wording of the policy.

If the agent says it's still covered, get it in writing from the insurance company on the actual policy contract, including the specific waiver of the company's right to disallow claims for instruments used professionally, AND verify annually that the terms have not changed prior to renewal.

[Geotuba]

You might want to double check what their policy says if the instrument is used for professional work versus amateur use.

Well - the last time I got paid for playing was .... damn - I can't remember - more than 30 years ago anyway!!

I shall indeed check though as regards what the coverage would be if I were to get an occasional paying gig! Thanks for the advice

[JB]

If used for income, and your agent still says it will be covered under the household policy, be sure to get that in writing from the agent.

Insurance companies are not contractually bound by the errors, omissions, and/or (mis)representations of their agents, so getting it in writing from the agent will not protect you if there is a discrepancy between the word of an agent and the actual wording of the policy.

If the agent says it's still covered, get it in writing from the insurance company on the actual policy contract, including the specific waiver of the company's right to disallow claims for instruments used professionally, AND verify annually that the terms have not changed prior to renewal.

Thanks for catching that, and you are absolutely correct. Take note Geotuba.

[joebob]

I thought insurance was free in Canada

[JB]

I thought insurance was free in Canada

Apparently just the health insurance...

[Geotuba]

You might want to try using these guys if you plan on ever using your horn for a paying gig. If not then you should be fine with tenant/home owner's insurance.

http://www.hedinc.com/products/musicali ... /main.aspx

Thanks for that

Adding it to my home policy would cost, it appears, $2.10 per $100 insured. These folks would be $1.57 (plus tax) per $100 insured

Big difference - and HED covers professional use

Has anyone in Canada actually made a successful claim?

[sungfw]

Adding it to my home policy would cost, it appears, $2.10 per $100 insured. These folks would be $1.57 (plus tax) per $100 insured

Big difference - and HED covers professional use

But are you comparing apples to apples?

The deductible for HED $500/claim.

What's the deductible for the rider on your home owner's policy? What's the rider premium if the deductible for your home owner's policy is $500?

Toronto Musicians' insurance is $2.75 per $100 with a $50 deductible. For a $5000 policy, the difference in annual premium between Toronto Musicians and HED works out to $59 ($2.75 - $1.57 = $1.18 per $100 * 50). So if your coverage is with TM and your horn sustains damage costing $499 to repair, you pay $50 and TM picks up the balance. If your coverage is with HED, you pay the entire $499 and HED pays ZERO. And don't forget that the deductible is per claim, not per year or per instrument, so if your horn is stolen or irreparably damaged, TM will pay up to $4950 ($5000 - $50 deductible), while HED will only pay $4500 ($5000 - $500 deductible).

DISCLOSURE: I am neither insured no employed by either TM or HED, nor do I have any financial interest in or business relationship with either company. As far as I know, none of my extended family or friends are insured by, employed by, have a financial interest in, or business relationship with either company.

[Edited to add disclosure statement.]

[Geotuba]

But are you comparing apples to apples?

Important point - however I am mostly concerned with complete loss (e.g., theft) or major damage (e.g. car accident) on my $21,000 Rudy. I've gone 37 years with no significant damage or loss on my B&H Imperial before getting the Rudy. For me the calculation therefore looks like $1.18 * 210 = $247.80 per year (more than half the difference in deductible) - multiply by (say) 20 years which is probably about as long as I will continue to play the Rudy = $4,956

So the math does change as the value of the horn changes

[sungfw]

Ah, but the $1.18 difference is based on comparing a policy with a $50 deductible vs. one with a $500 deductible. To compare apples to apples, you need to compare polices with the same deductible.

Virtually every insurance policy calculates the premium based on the deductible: the lower the deductible, the higher the premium; and the higher the deductible, the lower the premium.

I have no idea what TM's or your home owner's insurance company's premium would be if you raised the deductible to $500 (doesn't matter to me because I no longer live in CA), but I would bet that the difference in premium compared to HED would be negligible.

[Geotuba]

Yes - it's all a matter of assessing our risk and how much of that we as individuals are prepared to take on ourselves. Actually my homeowner's deductible is $500 too. In my case I am mainly concerned about having someone else take on the big risks and I will look after the little risks myself. That will likely not be the case for everyone and we all have to make our own assessment depending on our individual circumstances.

[sungfw]

Yes - it's all a matter of assessing our risk and how much of that we as individuals are prepared to take on ourselves. Actually my homeowner's deductible is $500 too. In my case I am mainly concerned about having someone else take on the big risks and I will look after the little risks myself. That will likely not be the case for everyone and we all have to make our own assessment depending on our individual circumstances.

Just wanting to make sure that the relationship between deductible and premium is clear, and that cost comparison are made between equivalent policies.

I've seen too many people (mostly university students, but a number of adults who should know better) buy the policy with the lowest premium without paying attention to the deductible (and exclusions), then get a nasty shock when they go to file a claim and find out that they're responsible for the entire amount up to the amount of the deductible before their insurance pays so much as a dime.