TubeNet

If that's all you have, go for it.

I wouldn't even feel comfortable playing a horn with top action valves in an American orchestra. That's why I got the 983. But I'm way too sensitive.

Perception count's for allot. It will affect the way your peers hear you. With an old bell front horn, any missed note or out of tune notes and your a hack or not serious about your music. I strongly believe that you could show up with an expensive modern professional instrument and play so so, and your peers would be "ok" with it, possibly even say you play well. But if you show up with a cheapo bell front tuba and play flawlessly, while your peers might not complain, they sure wouldn't recommend you for other gigs.

There's vintage video, circa 1962, showing Charles Munch conducting Boston in Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique.

The second tuba is a recording bell, 4-valve, front-action instrument, apparently Eb.

When performing in area community bands onstage without a shell (or outdoors), I'm glad to have a recording bell available. I'd go so far as to call it "essential" (unless you have a good sousaphone)!

Sure beats blasting away into the fly space above stages (and still not being heard).

Once I played the VW Sea Symphony on a monster York BBb I'd borrowed from Sam Green, that had top-action valves. I got no end of grief from the trombones, especially #3 - they kept telling me they couldn't hear themselves, their fillings were falling out, etc.. Maybe I should have told them to go fly a kite, or something. But I guess I'm just a overly nice fat guy with a big sound.

Not to stray too far off topic, but the same level of prejudice, if not more, is very present amongst recording engineers when I arrive without a Fender Precision bass.

If you could manage to blend in with the ensemble using a bell front, go for it, but I'm guessing it would be a little much in the orchestra setting.

Liberty Mo wrote:Not to stray too far off topic, but the same level of prejudice, if not more, is very present amongst recording engineers when I arrive without a Fender Precision bass.

Probably because they've forgotten which knob they'll have to move from its preset position.

Liberty Mo wrote:If you could manage to blend in with the ensemble using a bell front, go for it, but I'm guessing it would be a little much in the orchestra setting.

It might or might not, depending on the piece being played (and the orchestra). I sat in with our local youth orchestra for a concert a week ago, and had to switch to a different mouthpiece (Bach 7 vs. my usual Kellyberg) to get enough edge on the low parts in Copland's "Billy the Kid" suite to satisfy the conductor (i.e., "balance the 'bones" ). A bell-front Mira 186 (or a helicon) probably would have been a less-taxing (and better-heard) alternative.

My favorite tuba ever was my King Monster rotary BBb. Unbelievable horn, and everyone complimented the sound. But it was a recording bell, and I wouldn't be caught dead using it in an orchestra. I loved using it for Guy Lombardo gigs and early jazz, and outdoor band concerts (but BOY was it heavy!). But in the end I sold it because it was not going to ever earn its keep.

Miss how it played - best horn I ever owned, no question (talk about good intonation)!

J.c.S.

lgb&dtuba wrote:
Probably because they've forgotten which knob they'll have to move from its preset position.

Man that is so true.

From the H.N. White website:

".....ideally suited for Concert Band, Symphony Orchestra, and Dance work".....Wm. Bell

What better testimonial could one ask for?

I could probably come up with $760 for a new artist special model with case right now!

I voted yes, but the "assuming" part of that answer really tells the tale.

I would probably try to aim the bell so that it pointed upward to some extent.

But it has been said that people, including musicians and conductors, hear what they see. If you show up with an instrument that doesn't look right, you'll have to exceed their expectations by a larger margin.

I once brought a 20J to a rehearsal of our summer band, which is somewhat more relaxed than during the regular season. The guest conductor called it a "blunderbuss" even though we were rehearsing for an outdoor concert. That was not because of the way I was playing it. He was hearing what he saw.

Rick "who has the forward bell for the York Master" Denney

I'm in Cleveland. Everything here is based on the Cleveland Orchestra, with whom I've had the priveledge of playing. It is weird enough that I used to use my Besson Eb with them, based on my own sound concept. But I noticed my number of gigs reduce quickly that year, despite membership in another local orchastra. So I'm back to the German instruments (though admittedly Yasu uses a York much of the time too), and I've noticed the opposite trend.

Look, you also learn to know your collegues and your environment. I'm already the weird one bringing ophicleide and cimbasso into concerts, and doubling on bone and euph. I not only have to be on the ball and spot on, but I have to be what was hired, even if there are many who hear with their eyes. I cannot imagine if I had come in to sit next to Ron Bishop with a recording bell, even though Zarathustra may have been rockin'. I seriously doubt if they would've let me stay, and I don't even have to guess if they'd've hired me again. No way.

In that it was only getting sparse use, I sold it. Perhaps a bell-up version will come my way and I can rejoice in playing a BBb of the highest calibre. This wouldn't be an issue in this town. They look to similar to CCs, they sound good, and another sub with the orchestra (James Jenkins - GREAT player!) also uses BBb. Plus, Kings have a good history in this town!

Clear as mud?

J.c.S.

enigma wrote: 1). What are the playing differences?
2). Do conductors or band/orchestra members care??
3). Do you go to stereotype and reserve the forward bell for outside gigs?

I practice in a small house and like the sound of the horn blasting against the ceiling and then back down on me with the u-bell.

The r-bell was kind of clunky for me to handle because I didn't have a stand and, with or without cases, it filled up the back of my car. It's easy to stand it on the u-bell and it is smaller to put in the car. I am planning to get a gig bag.

The auditorium I will be playing in has a stage but really no ceiling or shell so, before I play a concert there, I will give them both a try. I'll go with the best sounding bell.

Since the conductor (for good or ill) is 'God with a stick" I suppose I will play what the conductor wants.

As for the 'bones, they can f**k themselves.

Har har har...

J.c.S.

A way to make your conductor/trombones/strings, ok everybody, mad is to show up with a sousaphone. I had to use a sousaphone in a rehearsal once and it is not a night i want to relive. Lots of complaints, weird looks, throwing things in the bell, etc.

I will remind everyone that the "original" and much used by J.P. Sousa band "Sousaphone" was helicon wrapped, but bell-up!