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Dear Tubenet Community:

I have never owned or have used a tuba with a fifth valve. From my understanding, a fifth valve provides more fingering options for playing certain passages better in tune. Is the use of a fifth valve similar or like the transition from three to four valves, where combinations are condensed like low c and f below the staff using only one valve, and on a three-valve usually requiring more than one. Will a fifth valve condense more fingerings and make things easier? If it does, I have my eyes on a Miraphone 186-5U BB-Flat. If it doesn't, would I better off playing with just four valves? Please give me some clarity so that I can understand how this applies.

Thank you.

BavarianFanfare wrote:If it does, I have my eyes on a Miraphone 186-5U BB-Flat. If it doesn't, would I better off playing with just four valves? Please give me some clarity so that I can understand how this applies.

Miraphone has used two different fifth-valve lengths over the years. One is is a flat 1-2 (or 2-3) combination, and the other is a flat whole step.

In both cases, the fifth valve is there to make notes below low F down to the pedal Bb easier to play better in tune. If you play in that register much, you'll really appreciate having the fifth valve. It's unlikely you'll use it above low F except to solve some very specific problem, such as needing an easier finger pattern for a run or something.

It won't do any harm to have it, even if you never use it or only use it rarely.

I do get asked to play low Eb's pretty often, and on a four-valve Bb tuba there is no really good fingering for that note. My tubas have excellent false tones, and I can play the Eb and below using them. But if I was venturing further down, I'd want a fifth valve.

I wouldn't think of owning an F tuba without one, but on the F I'm always playing in the register just above the pedal.

Rick "for whom the lack of a 5th valve is not the worst problem in the register just above the Bb pedal" Denney

One of the fingerings that the 5th valve facilitates is the whole step trill from a note fingered conventionally 2+3 to a note fingered 1st valve alone, and other variations on that scenario. With the more common band literature that does not venture into more than a few flats and accidentals, and that traditionally the vast majority of band music is not written below that low F, and of course the extra weight, the 5th valve has not become common on BBb tubas like it is on a CC tuba, which has to have that 5th valve to reliably do the F and below.

Yes, it would be nice to have a 5th valve on my 186, for the times I do occasionally play the low Eb, D and Db, usually in my case as a dropped octave on a cadential chord to provide better foundation. Although especially this season, the community band director has actually programmed a couple of pieces that have written low Eb's and D's. Depending on how the band is doing that particular moment, I have to play Eb either "false pedal" open, 1+4 and lip down and/or pull, or even 1+2+4 and arch the back of my tongue to lip it up, which can give an edge to the tone that actually blends well with woodwinds. Same way with Db 1+3+4, with a long pull on 1, as 4 is tucked under the bow and is not in a good postion to pull, and 3 is tucked behind 1, also making it awkward to pull.

D, on the other hand, sits right in the pocket with 2+3+4.

Do I absolutely need it for band, even with the "symphonic" character of some of the pieces we perform? No. I'm doing just fine, as the exceptions that would call for a 5th valve are few and far between. So a 5th valve coupled with a 2nd valve kicker for 2+4, like on a lot of Rudy Meinl's, would be a great luxury I would really enjoy, if I had the privilege. It would be nice to have. Maybe one of these days Dan Schultz can rig one up for me like he did on his.

Final thought: some of the "original" 5th valve configurations, as Rick posted above, were to have the thumb as a 2+3. And a lot of new tubas have an extension slide so you can have either the "long whole step" necessary in combination with 4th valve, or the 2+3. With the added length this would entail on a BBb over a CC, and the fact that the 5th valve came to BBb later than CC, it would be rare to find a 5th valve on a BBb that was anything but the long whole step.

I put a 5th rotor on my 186 a couple of years ago. It's set to the 2-3 valve combination. I use it mainly for Gb and Db. I have several other horns that I play more regularly but if I played my Mirafone exclusively, I would likely find more uses for it. I say "go for it". EVERY tuba has an intonation quirk (or two) so the extra valve certainly won't hurt anything.

.....sometimes your find 'em from the factory on other brands also. Here's the pic of a valve set from a '70's B&S BBb with a 5th valve=long whole step and 6th valve=long half step. The extra 2 valves rarely see use except on the final chord of hymns at church.

dmmorris wrote:......The extra 2 valves rarely see use except on the final chord of hymns at church.

Those valves might be a great source of spare parts someday!