TubeNet

I'm a member of the Univ. of Central Arkansas' Wind Ensemble and we are going to Vienna, Austria in May. We are renting percussion and a string bass while we are over there but we aren't renting tubas for some reason. So, me and the other tuba player have to take our horns over there. However, I only have a gig bag and the other guy doesn't have a case yet (and may not have one for the trip).

So, is anyone willing to let us barrow/rent 2 flight cases? We really need them since the school's cases are inadaquate for flight. The school is willing to pay for shipping to and from UCA as well as "insurance" for any damage that may occur during transit. If you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to help or I can give you our tuba professor's contact info.


I have a Sam Gnagey "frankentuba". It's a 19" Holton Eb bell and King 2341 (think that's correct) CC body/valve section. The other guy has a Meinl Weston 2145 CC.

Thanks!

Greg wrote:Have you voiced these concerns with your applied professor?

Yes, actually posting on here was his idea. We've tried searching locally but not many tuba players fly to gigs around here so it's been hard finding a flight case.

Contact Cerveny directly and see if they can help you locate a rental or borrow.

Cerveny????????

Any other ideas? We kinda need some help...



Thanks for the ideas though!

I would REALLY express your concerns to the Music Department / Band Department and perhaps tell them that in all good conscience you can't take your horn on this trip, that you'll be happy to go but you won't have an instrument if they can't help you (make sure your section mate is on board with this as well).

It's unrealistic of the school to not do everything in their power - including renting horns, which they are doing for other sections. If the school owns any instruments perhaps those should be substituted for yours. I understand they have a budget but it's not your fault if they didn't budget properly for this trip.

Kingrob76 is right: this is a school-sponsored activity so it's the school's responsibility to provide you with a horn to play. If that means forking out to rent tubas, so be it.

Seems to me someone in the dept is not thinking straight. Looks like they need someone to set them straight on the math, so here goes.

They're already on the hook for the cost of renting, if not buying, two flight cases, 'cuz there ain't no way two tubas are going to make it across the ocean and back in gig bags/regular cases without sustaining damage. Then tack on oversize baggage charges both ways for two tubas. So it's already costing them several hundered dollars, minimum, to get the tubas there and back.

Guess what happens if your tuba is damaged on the flight to Vienna (or at any point before the final concert) and isn't or is just barely playable, or turns up missing (lost baggage happens)? Answer: they're going to end up having to borrow or rent one anyway, provided they can find one to borrow/rent on short notice. AND they're going to be stuck with the repair bill once you get back. (If they want you to take your own tuba, it d**n well better be covered at full replacement value under the dept's all risks insurance policy, and if the dept doesn't have a blanket all risks insurance policy they d**n well better get polices for your tubas before the trip, because the probability that your home owner's or renter's insurance policy will cover it is very slightly higher than ZERO.)

Explain it to them nicely. Talk slowly and use small words so they can understand. Maybe you can talk some sense into them.

I know a guy whose community band did a European tour and the band rented a horn for him - turns out it was a Miraphone 188, and pretty darn good one he said.

Maybe the best approach is to investigate the cost of a rental and compare that to the cost of obtaining a case, shipping it (or having it travel via the airlines), and insuring it. I'm willing to bet the prices are comparable.

...

tuben wrote:I TOTALLY disagree. If you want to go on a trip to Europe, or anywhere that involves a plane and want to take your tuba with you it is YOUR responsibility to provide for the care of your instrument.

Sorry, but there is a HUGE difference between a student deciding on his or her own to take a trip to Europe and deciding of his or her own volition to take along his or her musical instrument and a student participating in a school-sponsored function in which the student's performance on a musical instrument is mandatory.

If performing on the trip is optional, then, yes, any student who chooses to do so—including the string bass player— should be required to pay the cost of transporting his or her instrument to and from the performance venue; if the school expects or requires students to perform with the wind symphony, if a representative of the school (director, prof, dept secretary, whomever) exerts undue pressure a student to perform on the trip ("We HAVE to have tubas," "Don't let us down," etc), or if a student's grade/credit in any way depends on whether or not she or he makes, much less performs, on the trip, then taking one's instrument is a school-imposed requirement, and the school has a moral obligation to cover ALL reasonable performance related costs, including the cost of transporting the instruments safely to and from the performance venue.

Since neither tubist already owns a hard case or a flight case, nor would they be contemplating purchasing one at this point in time were it not for the school-related function, reasonable performance related costs include the cost of renting flight cases for the tubas as well as any baggage handling costs for the flight to and from Vienna. If the tubists do decide to purchase a flight case for the trip, the school should reimburse them for an amount equal to the cost a renting a case.

I hate to be a douche...but how does this discussion help me find a hard case?

I have voiced my concerns with the head of the dept. and the tuba professor. This is what they feel is the best solution for now. We've tried to track down some cases locally but we were not able to find any. The band really doesn't have the funds to shell out several thousand dollars for new flight cases just for this trip.

Stop bitching! Help me and the other tuba player...please!

So, just to clarify...

I HAVE TALKED TO MY PROFESSOR as well as the Dept. Chair and the head band director!!!!!!!!!!!!

This was their recomendation.

Our school only owns 2 CC tubas and they've seen better days. So, I'd prefer not to play them since we're kinda representing our school and country and all.

Also, I'm a broke college student...so purchasing a case isn't an option (especially after paying for this trip).

...

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I think that you should consider the carton idea. About a year ago I purchased a tuba that was shipped from the Netherlands to D.C., and then from D.C. to Portland, Oregon. During those flights, this tuba was wrapped in bubble wrap, placed in the gig bag, which was then wrapped in more bubble wrap, and then wrapped in cardboard. Now, I am not saying that all that was good packing by any means, and I am not saying that your horn won't somehow get damaged, but my tuba, when packed like that, took no damage during the flights. I guess what I am trying to say is that the carton will probably work fine. You should SERIOUSLY consider the carton idea.

Also, this tuba of mine flew United, and no oversize/overweight charges were applied. Nothing!

I hope that you find a solution. Good luck.

I would still recommend researching to cost of renting tubas once in Austria - find out the name of the company providing the rentals for the percussion and the string bass, contact them yourself and determine the costs. I'm thinking these costs are going to be within shouting distance of transporting and insuring oversized / overweight packaging that contains a tuba, and even the best packed tuba still has a chance of being damaged - or lost in transport. I recall a couple of "horror" stories on here about tubas traveling as luggage in Europe that didn't show up with the traveler. Insurance may cover damage but what if the package goes walkabout? Or if enough damage occurs between home and Vienna to render the instrument unplayable?

If you do ship the horns, talk to the shops / repair guys who specialize in tubas about how to pack them and how to NOT pack them.

If after researching the costs they were still deemed to be too high, I would try contacting a professional player / music school in Vienna and look into the possibility of borrowing a couple horns for a few days (or whatever the length of your trip is) - they may be willing to accommodate you, or maybe take a trade for a few University of Arkansas sweatshirts or something.

Personally, I would probably be inclined to pay for a rental out of pocket before dropping $600+ on a flight case. But that's just me and a flight case for me would be a limited application tool.

Hi,
A few years ago several high school and university band students in Hawaii went to Europe as a Hawaii State Band and booster club members made custom boxes out of plywood, supports and foam which survived flights and long bus rides with no damage and except for manual labor, cost little. Doesn't the college have an engineering dept? Nice chance for inter-department support. Or, have the college put their CC's in playable condition. If there's a will, there is always a way.

How about a benefit recital or function of some kind to raise money to either:

Repair the school tubas
or
Buy Flight cases for horns that the school would own?
or
Rent Horns.

Get other students at the school of music involved to help out the Band as a whole raise money for the trip.
Between Alumni of the school and families involved with the school, I'm sure something could happen with proper planning and marketing.

Also, is there going to be a send off concert?
Donations/Proceeds from the tickets could benefit the entire group.

If nothing else, Easter is around the corner, and gigs are to be had. That would be a step in the right direction?

My personal recommendation is a UniTec lightweight case. I have traveled with one and it was great. Designed in cooperations with Mr. Baer, they are great cases, and the folks
at UniTec are great people.
Hopefully this helps!

Any chance there are tubas over there you could use? I used my personal horns for most national tours when in school, but for the two extended international tours I did each of the following:
A) used a school horn (186 BBb) in their case and added more padding inside
B) played on a old 3 valve horn at a school in the destination country. After a day or so figuring out the tuning issues, it went fine and I received many complements on the sound - they actually offerred me a job at their local conservatory! (too bad they didn't offer me a wage that would support a family.)

tuben wrote: No. If the students decide to purchase a flight case, then that is their choice and it will then be their property. By your logic if the students already owned a flight case then they should be able to 'charge' the university for 'rental' of the case for the trip. Again, should a bass trombonist who owns a $450 case be able to charge the school for rent of the case? No.

If you are going to attempt to infer what my logic demands, kindly do so on the basis of ALL my stated conditions, not simply the ones that suit your position.

The crucial condition, which you passed over, is that neither student owns nor would be contemplating the rental or purchase of a flight case at this time were it not for the trip.

The rental cost of a case for a bass trombonist who already owns a case is NOT a reasonable cost since the trombonist incurs no additional, extraordinary expense above and beyond that incurred by other students in order to be able to perform at the performance venue. If a bass trombonist does not own a case and is expected or required by the school to perform at the venue and the school does not provide for one to be available at the performance venue, then, the rental cost cost of a case is a reasonable expense for the school to incur.

If ownership of a case were a prerequisite or an ordinary requirement or expectation to perform with the wind symphony, then the school would not be under any obligation to provide a case or to pay reasonable costs toward the acquitision and use of a case for the duration of a school-sponsored, extraordinary event; likewise, if ownership of a case is not a prerequisite or an ordinary requirement or expectation and the school expects/requires students to perform at a venue that requires the use of a case in order to ensure that the instruments arrives at the venue in good working order, the school has an obligation to provide the necessary instruments for the students use; failing that, the school has an obligation to provide a case for the student to use for the duration of the trip.

It should go without saying, but apparently must be said, that the school's obligation is limited strictly to providing the student with a usable instrument at the performance venue. If the school makes either a school-owned or a rental instrument available, it has fulfilled its obligation (which it apparently did, in the form of school-owned CC tubas, although that information was not available at the time of my post); if the student declines to use it in favor of his or her personally owned horn, the school does not incur the further obligation to provide a case for the student's use.

tuben wrote:

Arkietuba wrote:Also, I'm a broke college student...so purchasing a case isn't an option (especially after paying for this trip).

This is a VERY important piece of information. Turns out the wind ensemble is going, but the musicians are expected to pay for part or all of the expenses incurred.

What? Surely you expected the SCHOOL to pay for the trip?

(SOAPBOX) We as a society need to stop teaching the young people of America that there is or will always be someone above them to do the things they do not want to or provide for the things they do not want to work to obtain. (off soapbox)