TubeNet

A couple of questions...

Last week while traveling I came across a Holton Collegiate BBb sousaphone in a small shop. Upon a very cursory inspection it appears to be in decent shape, the bell is shiny and dent free, and the inner loop and valve section dent free. The outer has typical depressions and small dents but nothing major. I pulled the first valve and the plating looked good. I did not pull the others or really tug on any of the slides. The removable neck joint show evidence of some solder repair and probably needs replaced, although it looks functional. Raw brass. Actually, judging from the bell, it probably had decent laquer with typical wear, but it looks like the shop owner polished it right off one the rest of the horn. Price $450.

What do you think? Reasonable? Has anyone here had any experience with these horns. I am sure the lady who runs the shop would let me play it, but it is an antique shop and quite frankly I wouldn't put it up to my mouth without a thorough cleaning.

I searched and the only comment on the model was that one member thought the one he played in HS was stuffy and unimpressive.

I would like to have a nice playing condition brass souzy. I have a '47 King that would currently needs a little more work ($$) to refurbish than this Holton appaprently would but I 've always liked the King and really only need one sousaphone. Anyone have feeling concerning King vs Holton for a brass souzy?

Thanks in advance for the TNFJ accumulated wisdom.

Indeed. Bring your mouthpiece, extra bits in case you need them, and valve oil. Then play away. If it plays well for you, I say go for it!

How far would the $450 take your King towards being in full working order?

Is the King a model, which has the potential to come out as a better instrument than the Holton student model?

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

imperialbari wrote:How far would the $450 take your King towards being in full working order?

imperialbari wrote:Is the King a model, which has the potential to come out as a better instrument than the Holton student model?

I got thinking about this, not so much in terms of the sousaphones mentioned above but in terms of instruments in general.

I believe (from my own limited experience) that some student instruments from years gone are as well built and as good of players as some present day low-end professional instruments. Has anyone else found this to be true?

Maybe it's a misperception but it seemed to me in bygone days that "student" often carried a connotation of "rugged" or basic but "built-to-last" as opposed to the flimsy, throw-away nature of some of today's student lines.

back when I was in High school I was able to see a lot of different high school's sousaphones. We had a 1930's model King Sousaphone and we had a brand new King. They were identical in design. However the 30's model outweighed the new one by 10 pounds or so. My point is that I think that is a completely fair assumption that older student models were better built than current ones.

The old heavy pre-WWII sousaphones sound well, but are not kind on ones shoulder.

Student models may be good. They tend to be less consistent from some makers, because they are assembled by apprentices rather than craftsmen.

If my memory doesn't cheat on me bloke once said about the Conn 14K versus the student Pan American BBb sousa, that they were of the same acoustical design, but that the PA had fewer braces.

Some makers made smallish sousaphones intended for studentsm intend on making them easier blown than the pro models.

I don't know the Holton Collegiate, but I don't remember anybody singing their prize.

Conn pro models have a congregation of followers. I am a member there.

One member (Lew or Rob P-M?) once compared King and Conn sousaphones on the old TubeNet. What was said about the Conn fit with my opinion. That member however made a very good case for choosing King, if one wanted a sweeter sound.

As I have read TN over the years, King sousaphones have a not so ideal placement of the main tuning slide, but they are still considered good sousaphones.

My point is: Why buy a model not favoured very much, when the same money would bring a fine sousaphone in good working order?

To set proportions straight: If the Holton Collegiate was my only option of getting access to a sousaphone, I very likely would buy it. I still rather would have a King. And I am staying with my Conn's.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

My high school has a Holton Collegiate sousa that I played from time to time my freshman and sophomore years of high school. It's hard to judge because it wasn't in the best of shape...but this particular example was pretty stuffy. Like I said though, it could have been due to the condition. Honestly though, $450, go give it a toot and see what you think, and maybe bargain a little bit if you are in the position to.

The Holton "Collegiate" series, which included the entire range from cornets to souzys, was a competitor to the Olds "Ambassador" series. The "Collegiate" souzy will be more along the lines of a 14K in its size.

And I can confirm from experience that a Pan American or a Cavalier is essentially the same in all aspects as a 14K.

And yes, the tuning slide is before the valve block on a King, which with its .687 bore and a little more cylindrical tubing in the mix, has a different tone than the Conns, which some people prefer the more projection, while others prefer the Conn tone. I like a mixed section to take advantage of the best attributes of both.

But for $450, if it's in good shape, he could buy it, have a tech go over it, and still sell it at a profit later if he doesn't like it, or just keep it for a beer gig horn.