TubeNet

A couple of lite suggestions that might be completely irrelevent ...

If it's a matter of tensing up before performing, then a period of mellowing out with alcohol might be helpful. Not too much. And don't drive anywhere for a while afterwards.
"Better living through chemistry"

If it's a matter of plowing (or semi-plowing) through pieces when practicing, then stop plowing. That is probably your subconscious doing a lot of the playing for you. Consciously do each attack and consciously focus on tone, expression, what your face feels like when you that weird interval so you are used to doing that, because that is probably what will happen when you perform and are not as relaxed. Your subconscious probably won't be as free to do its thing for you when you get in front of the audience.

If it's a matter of tensing up before performing, then a period of mellowing out with alcohol might be helpful. Not too much. And don't drive anywhere for a while afterwards.
"Better living through chemistry"

This I can agree with.

Consciously do each attack and consciously focus on tone, expression, what your face feels like when you that weird interval so you are used to doing that, because that is probably what will happen when you perform and are not as relaxed.

This I can not. Last thing you want to do while performing is be conscious of what physical things/maneuvers you are doing. Focus on sound and music ALWAYS. Jake goes into great length in dealing with this in all of his masterclass media that is available.

On a related note, I was at a Phil Smith masterclass once where he said that he never feels as if he's "arrived", i.e. that he thinks his playing is flawless, and would not need to improve. He always feels that there is always something upon which he can improve, another goal being set in his playing.

Last thing you want to do while performing is be conscious of what

Didn't say that's what you want to do. That's probably what is happening in performance. Your answer seems to be: Well, just don't do it.
Ah yes. Marvelous answer. Yes. Yes. Whatever you are doing wrong, stop doing it. There now. Problem solved.

(but you should keep your conscious mind in the game and focus on mechanical details when practicing).

I recently gave my junior recital and went through somethings that may prove interesting to this thread. I thought it went quite well, the audience (tubists, non-tubists, profs) thought it went very well. (i'll try and figure out how to post a recording and ask for a TNFJ opinion as soon as the recording majors get me a CD ) The program was a bit of a chop-buster, but I felt prepared and comfortable with the program.

It opened with the Strauss Horn Concerto, I cacked a few notes in the 2nd movement, I was pissed. However, I let it go and finished out the piece quite well... audience didn't know/ didn't remember I had cacked anything. But I was still pissed.. which was okay, I had the Hindemith coming up. I was able to put a lot of this intense energy I had going into the Hindemith and it turned out to be one of my better performances of that work. Ended the first half with a John Stevens tune "Power" ton of fun, ended on a good vibe and went to intermission.

By this point I'm pretty tired but, gave myself a bit of a break, I have an arrangement of 'Loch Lomond' and the Sheridan arr. of 'Danny Boy'. Closing the recital was the VW, and I am BEAT! but I LOVE the VW and can pretty much play it in my sleep.. and thats pretty much what happened.. I felt like I was in another world.. not really knowing what was going on, and it was over.

After the recital I mentioned this feeling at the reception to my professor, a friend, and my accompianist. the prof. adn friend said, "yeah that VW rocked!" and the accompianist said, " well for better or worse I guess!"

I guess the point of this story is that my opener (when I was completely cogniscent (sp?) of my face/fingers/air/etc. ) and my my closer (When I was oblivious to what was happening and was on muscle-memory) were both good... but had problems, more than the pieces in between. So for me I discovered a good performance 'place' is somewhere halfway between muscle-memory and over-analysis. Now I'm just working on how to reach that state at will.

One other point.. Don't get down about the recording. Recital recordings suck. Its a live recording with probably mediocre microphones and little more than a pressing of 'record' by the staff. you weren't in a recording session, you didn't have takes, you weren't in a studio. After an elective recital I gave sophomore year, I was congratulated by my prof. and I said, "yeah, but I sound like *** on the recording" and he replied, "Do you know how many tapes of my performances litter the roadside on the way to my house? I get pissed and chuck 'em out my window about five minutes from campus!"

surround yourself with people who challenge you and your thoughts/and musicians whom you respect and, to a degree, envy.

a positive learning community can do wonders for musicians

i've been in a situation similar to yours and then one like the one described above. the latter has shown positive improvements quicker.

good luck and I second the "inner game" book. great look into performance psych.

1-Listen to good music, and listen often
2-Remember, as soon as you play a note, there is nothing for you to do to change that one note you just played. Look forward to the next note, and make that note better.
3-The crowd will always hear something different, but don't shrug off their comments. The job of playing a tuba doesn't end in the three square feet surrounding you and your instrument.
4-Every day, concentrate on one aspect of your playing, and make that better. The next day, touch base with that aspect, and move on to a new aspect if satisfied.
5-Play music you like, if possible!

Tubashaman wrote:

when non tubists say i do a good job (i.e professors of other instruments), I tend to often ignore them because of my mistakes

I know this is pretty much beside your question, but...
Why don´t you trust the listening expertise of professors in music, even if they´re non-tubists ?
It´s true, only YOU know EXACTLY where you may have not played to your full potential, but on the other hand only THEY know EXACTLY how the piece could be received by an audience.
I´d perfectly TRUST a professor in music to be able to make qualified and justified comments on your MUSICIANSHIP, regardless of their specific instrument. There are many examples of great instrumentalists taking lessons with musicians of non-related instruments.
I´m quite sure I (amateur) know a lot more about playing tuba than, say, Anne-Sophie Mutter (top rank violin soloist). I DO think I could learn tons of musical stuff in a private lesson with her, though.

For most people a recital or audition seems like A BIG DEAL, and it is! How do we get over this? I think that during the times in my life that I have felt the most comfortable was when I was doing a particular musical function on a regular basis. Maybe a short recital tour, very regular quintet performances, a long running show, etc. Unfortunately, things like a recital or audition just don’t seem to fall into the “REGULARâ€

Check out Benjamin Zander's book "The Art of Possibility." It may help out.

tubashaman wrote:I really want to play tuba and eventually get my DMA in performance (yes i know its hard and i wont get a job), but should I quit now if im not that good....id really like to since I love playing, but im one the best tuba player out here (not out of arrogance) for 200 miles besides my teacher, just due to the lack of competition....i dont know how I stand with this...

I really want to continue and i really DONT wanna suck...

I think the point of the "going into music" thread was that it's hard for most people to subsist solely on playing alone, but that many people find a way to get beyond that.

Perhaps you just need to take the time to find the 200 miles where you ARE the best best tuba player around, and something you're good at to take up the slack...

When I started college I had extreme stage fright. I would prepare and have my solo works set and well rehearsed, but would reach the performance and over think my playing and in turn ruin a chance for a musical experience. What finally got me over my stage fright was two things

1. The performance is my chance to have fun and let it all go, and my chance to connect musicly with the audience. While I am not saying it does not matter, I am saying it is not the place to analyze my playing. I can examine and overthink the ins and outs of the performance later when I listen to the recording or watch the video of it.

2. I started memorizing all of my solos. I still go on stage with my scores and have them in front of me, but I am not tied to them and can concentrate of playing the horn.

These helped me, but we each have to find our own way to do it.

tubashaman wrote:I really want to continue and i really DONT wanna suck...

What does the decision to get a DMA have to do with the gap between your own idea of perfection and your actual performance? I didn't realize people got DMA's in preparation for a life of performance. I thought people got them because they wanted to learn at that level, or because they wanted to teach at that level. I know a guy who finished a DMA knowing that he would not be playing much in the future as a result of dystonia. But he still finished the DMA.

And what makes you think there will ever be a time when there is no gap between your idea of perfection and your actual performance? Do you think Pat Sheridan looks in the mirror and goes, "Perfect in EVERY way!"? You think Horowitz, at age 112 (or whatever) doesn't notice his own flaws? I quoted Lemond yesterday in another thread, "It doesn't hurt any less. You just go faster."

As you improve, so will your standards, to the point where they remain just out of reach. The motivation to improve is driven by that gap. You must live with that; it will never be any different, even if you become the best tuba player in the world.

Rick "who owns his flaws, but tries not to let his flaws own him" Denney

KevinMadden wrote:So for me I discovered a good performance 'place' is somewhere halfway between muscle-memory and over-analysis. Now I'm just working on how to reach that state at will.

I found this to be true for me as well. Though I always ran into the problem of, if my chops didn't "feel" right I would try and play safe at the sacrifice of musicality. So I'd play accurately but not very muscially. A good friend, who wasn't as accurate ( but still very accurate ), always played musically. The phrasing and musicality drove his performance, and he always got great reviews. At the time I was baffled as to why he seemed to be higher thought of as a player when I was more accurate, and better technically ( I was more than just a bit of a horn jock ). I don't wonder why anymore. I just wish I would of realized it then instead of well after the fact. He now is principal horn in the Navy Band in DC and still playing beautifully. Point I'm trying to make is, it is about the music. Concentrate on making beautiful music and let the muscle memory and cognitive awareness come along for the ride.

This is very far from being a unique problem, so first it might be a good idea to acknowledge that, for some people, we can easily get stuck on what we think we can convey musically and what actually comes out in a performance. Putting too much psychological effort into these sorts of problems can be treacherous, but think about your "I'm the best tuba player" mentality. In the world? No, that is probably not true. Are you a GOOD tuba player? Yes. More importantly - are you a GOOD tuba player who wants to become a GREAT tuba player? YES!

The attitude that I have adopted for performing since I left college is to have confidence in my ability and my preparation, rather than assuming that I am too talented to make errors. The preferable result is a relaxed concentration where my focus is on the music rather than the technique, as has already been mentioned in this thread. However, you can only perform that way if you practice that way.

When you read <i>The Inner Game of Tennis</i> (or if you already have, when you look it over from time to time), you will encounter the idea of "awareness". Even as you are concentrating on one musical problem at a time, you will not put all the pieces together unless priority number one is making music. We cannot block all the holes in the dam, if I may so inarticulate with sayings and all that. So the key is not to THINK about your tonguing, corners, air support, but to be AWARE, and gradually the body will become in tune with what you are trying to accomplish.

As far as your desire to get your DMA - you certainly need to think about the future goals (read the section about goals in the "spin-off" book <i>The Inner Game of Music</i>) and why a DMA has anything to do with it. I believe that if you have the drive to be better, if you can give so much time of yourself to improve your ability to make music, if all you can think about when you hear other players is how much you wish you could be the person playing on stage...if you feel that way and all the other logistics line up, go for it!

Two years ago, I sent in a tape for the Falcone Competition, and one of the judges wrote "keep doing what you're doing". If you consider that what you're doing could always be better and more effective, then it's the best advice you can ever get.

windshieldbug wrote:

I think the point of the "going into music" thread was that it's hard for most people to subsist solely on playing alone,

Where do people get that idea that "going into music" is the same as "subsisting solely on playing alone"?????

tubashaman wrote:Scooby your right.....im a junior though a senior in hours

I will choose a good place for Grad School that isnt Christian Based (TCU isnt based on the church anymore)

You don't exactly have to do that. You could go to Lee University for a master's in ed, performance, church music, or music business and play in David Holsinger's wind ensemble - and the school will set you up to take lessons with Michael Moore. Best of both worlds. (During my time there, I instead chose to study with the principal trombone of Chattanooga and split my time developing my bass trombone playing.)
http://music.leeuniversity.edu/ensemble ... semble.asp
They also have a kickin' jazz program
http://music.leeuniversity.edu/ensemble ... semble.asp
and perform at least one large scale choral/orchestral work every semester (Stravinsky Symphony of Psalms, Brahms German Requiem, etc)
and have a mass orchestra / choir for more crowd-pleasing events




P.S. You could also come to Nashville and take lessons with your favorite TubeNet poster

Nah. Vladimir and Elvis have been living in a trailer park in Mississippi since 1989.

KevinMadden wrote:I guess the point of this story is that my opener (when I was completely cogniscent (sp?) of my face/fingers/air/etc. ) and my my closer (When I was oblivious to what was happening and was on muscle-memory) were both good... but had problems, more than the pieces in between. So for me I discovered a good performance 'place' is somewhere halfway between muscle-memory and over-analysis. Now I'm just working on how to reach that state at will.

It's easy -- forget the physical work, but just stay vigilant and play with the ensemble, even if it's just you and your accompanist. You know how it's supposed to go, so just play it.

I'd add any experiences you can get performing with minimal-to-zero rehearsal, with great and not-so-great ensembles. The unexpected stuff -- tempo fluctuations, missed conductor cues, surprise cymbal crashes -- are what throw off most people. But, like anything else, you can learn what to do when those things happen. Become comfortable enough in your part that you can follow -- and, if necessary, LEAD -- everyone else.

If you know what role your part serves as compared to the second clarinet(s), you're on the right track.

KevinMadden wrote:After an elective recital I gave sophomore year, I was congratulated by my prof. and I said, "yeah, but I sound like *** on the recording" and he replied, "Do you know how many tapes of my performances litter the roadside on the way to my house? I get pissed and chuck 'em out my window about five minutes from campus!"

tubacrow wrote:2. I started memorizing all of my solos. I still go on stage with my scores and have them in front of me, but I am not tied to them and can concentrate of playing the horn.

A side benefit of all that memorization is that the player learns the phrasing, the ebb & flow of the music, a lot better. There isn't really a "bar 46" when you've got it memorized; it's like thinking, "this sentence, the next sentence, here's a short lick going into a longer phrase..."

Another benefit is that, usually, their attention -- their focus -- changes from a six-foot bubble around themselves and the music stand into occupying the entire airspace of the hall in which they're playing. I've seen it happen, too -- the same player, the same music, the same day, playing with music and then without, has better aural presence without a stand.

I'll also say this: PRACTICE PERFORMING. Don't get comfortable in a small, soundproofed room. You're not going to perform for anyone in there. If you can find other ensembles and/or different practice spaces, go for it. Get silly about performing on weekly departmental recitals, going a couple times a month (you might have to juggle a couple accompanists, though). There was a Shriner band that came to nearby towns during college, and a couple of us would go sightread performances with them. I used to take over our recital hall after hours to practice.

If you only practice execution, that's all you're going to do when you get on stage.