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Is there any point in ever buying a cimbasso? Not that I'm planning on it or even thinking about it... just curious.

You could actually buy one, and rent it out to orchestras or opera houses that don't own one to offset your cost. They are kinda fun to play though. i would recommend one of Sam Gnagey's over any that I have played. I spent alot of time with one that belongs to the Cincinnati Opera. Its a spectacular horn.

I have personally considered this when I get parts marked "cimbasso" on my stand.

My conclusion has so far been I will not bother unless I join an opera orchestra regularly performing Italian opera. Not sufficient use otherwise to justify the cost, or learning to play.

Purchase and learning of a bass trombone would for most of us be more beneficial.

Jonathan,who are you trying to kid?We all know it doesn't take much of a reason for you to buy a new horn.And then you have the stones to think we would believe a horn purchase has to be cost-effective for you.Pa-leeze



Mike"very jealous of the fabulous rep Jonathan gets to perform"Mason

Buy one because it's beautiful and it inspires you to make music.

SF

PWtuba wrote:Is there any point in ever buying a cimbasso? Not that I'm planning on it or even thinking about it... just curious.

I don't think I would ever consider buying one. However, curiousity got the best of me and I just had to build one. I still have to add a couple of things like waterkeys, bracing, and a floor peg. It's pitched the same as a BBb tuba. I plan to just use it from time-to-time on regular tuba parts... just to add a little more 'flavor' to groups I play with.

You just start with a few extra parts:


And add a bit of ingenuity and time:

MikeMason wrote:Jonathan,who are you trying to kid?

Probably myself

MikeMason wrote:We all know it doesn't take much of a reason for you to buy a new horn.And then you have the stones to think we would believe a horn purchase has to be cost-effective for you.Pa-leeze

Actually I have resisted trying a cimbasso so far - have to draw the line somewhere, although who know one day...

Jonathan "who actually does currently have two works headed "cimbasso" on his stand for forthcoming concert"

Ferguson wrote:Buy one because it's beautiful and it inspires you to make music.

SF

Haag builds beautiful instruments! Thanks for posting the pics of the new Alexander tubas on your site as well. I have never lusted after a horn like that before. EVER. Especially the custom 164 Kaiser. WOW

I love to play the cimbasso its just awesome. Just played Rigoletto and forza del destino on it...

One of my study colleagues once played the Sachse concerto for bass trombone on the cimbasso, this was really cool.....

Are there any recordings to demonstrate what difference using a cimbasso (rather than tuba) makes? Would be interesting!

I suppose one reason a cimbasso has not personally appealed to me previously, is they generally look more like valve trombones, than tubas. I rather prefer this version by Orsi - never seen, or heard one though.



But having said that, the Haag cimbasso illustrated in this thread is beautiful

Neptune wrote:Are there any recordings to demonstrate what difference using a cimbasso (rather than tuba) makes? Would be interesting!

I suppose one reason a cimbasso has not personally appealed to me to date, is they generally look more like valve trombones, than tubas. I rather prefer this version by Orsi - never seen, or heard one though.

well, the cimbasso is indeed a version with valves of the contrabasstrombone...some verdi operas were composed for valve trombones but pieces like rigoletto are very hard to play on a slide contrabasstrombone in F, so one uses the cimbasso

"Are there any recordings to demonstrate what difference using a cimbasso (rather than tuba) makes? Would be interesting!"

Funny you should ask Jonathon!

The last time I was involved in an ITEC annual conference, this was exactly what I tried to show the audience. It was at the 2002 ITEC in Greensboro, NC. I was one of the pros asked to do a masterclass presentation and rather than rehash how I would do The Ride or Fountains, I decided to try something different. We had the NC Symphony trombone section to work with (a real treat, these guys can play!) and I chose to have us perform excerpts from three Verdi opera overtures. I chose Nabucco, I Vespri, and La Forza. I picked excerpts from each piece that were the busiest parts for the section and then performed each excerpt three times. First, with a Willson Eb tuba, a choice of a rather large instrument and analagous to even most contrabass tubas. Second, I used a very small Cerveny Eb, one that also was very similar to most F tubas. Last, I used my Meinl-Weston Eb cimbasso. By doing each excerpt three times in a row, using the same trombone section and players each time and only switching my equipment, it was my hope to illustrate clearly how the different instruments and timbres compared. I thought the results were quite obvious, the cimbasso was a far better match for these parts than either of the tubas I chose.

I was given a recording of the presentation months afterwards, there might be others floating around as well. Denis Askew was the chairman of that ITEC, he might know how to get a copy of the recording to anyone that might want it, if you're interested.

Regards,
Jay Bertolet

First, the use of a Tuba on a cimbasso part is as appropriate a substitute as a bass oboe. It isn't even similar. Might as well have the other trombones play euphoniums.

Second, you could rent one, or get your ensemble to rent it. I made one for myself, and made all my money back (parts, etc.) in the first year by renting it. I sold that instrument, however, to switch to a slide instrument, since no one could play it but me - therefore I'd get the gigs

The slide instrument is just as valid, as we have swallowed hard to allow the other bones to play italian valve bone parts on the slide instruments. No reason not to do the same with the bottom instrument.

Realize, though, that a modern "cimbasso" is not always the intended instrument by a long shot. Ophicleide, upright serpent, and other instruments were used and - in a fraction of the cases - tuba.

I believe there's a british tubist whos made a very good list of period vs. modern instruments for use in Italian opera works. It's an excellent guide. But just throwing in a tuba because it's a low brass part does a a disservice to the composer and composition.

Advice? Rent one.

J.c.S.

Bob1062 wrote:

I really want to try one of those Cerveny F's with a Bach 30E!

Trust me, you don't. It's a dog. Actually, a dog plays better...

J.c.

J.c. Sherman wrote:

Bob1062 wrote:

I really want to try one of those Cerveny F's with a Bach 30E!

Trust me, you don't. It's a dog. Actually, a dog plays better...

J.c.

I must disagree, as I just played the Cerveny F cimbasso on display in Frankfurt, and thought it was excellent. It's not a Rudy Meinl, but at half the price, it's worthy. The one I tried had a few ergonomic issues, but they said they make them all to order and will make it however I'd like. Same goes with their tubas.

I also tried an excellent new cimbasso by G&P, which is an improved version of the cimbasso formerly sold as the Kalison. It is a 4 piston/1 rotor system, F tuba bore, and had a really big sound. Pics coming soon...

Yes, the Haag cimbasso has a main slide trigger, and even a remote control double water key button. I hardly care if it sells. I'll just keep it for myself and stare at it. That's how beautiful it is.

Best,

SF

I certainly respect you opinion, SF. I'm hoping your praise means that means they've changed the design of the leadpipe since the last one I tried. It was an uber-stuffy instrument.

I've tried a Kalison F and it was fantastic by comparison. Should've nabbed it - what a fun instrument!

J.c.S.