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My schedule for the next school year worked out so that I have two band classes. I will be in the top symphonic band as well as the concert band. My band director who is also my privet teacher asked me if I would be interested in playing bass trombone in the concert band (while continuing to play tuba in the symphonic band). After thinking about it, I believe I want to try my hand at playing bass t-bone. So, I was just wounding if any of you guys have any tips on doubling on tuba and bass t-bone, also any pros and cons of playing both. Currently I play on a CC Hirsbrunner HB-21 with a Schilke-Helleberg II mouthpiece and the bass trombone I will be playing on is a Yamaha YBL605, if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the help,

Also, what would be the best mouthpiece to get for the Bass T-bone after playing/continuing to play tuba?

It's be good to start working on it as soon as you can. It's pretty similar, but not nearly the same. I auditioned for school jazz band on bass bone with 2 weeks practice time and, even with my prior jazz trombone ezxperience, I didn't make it in. (Take my experience as you wish since I don't know my director's agenda)

I play a Kelly 1-1/2G whenever I play bass bone. To me, it's pretty wimpy. I am used to a pretty beastly tuba mouthpiece, so that might explain it. Still, though, I'd recommend you to try a 1-1/2G and see where you want to go from there.

I totally disagree...the time you spend working on bass trombone is time you are taking away from mastering the tuba. If you want to be successful in a very difficult profession, now is the time to really put the work in.

You are a junior in high school and own a HB-21...I'm going to assume from that you are a very serious student. If you aren't, then by all means learn the double and have fun with it. It's totally up to you.

I regularly play three different instruments, with my degree to show my ability with each of them them. I have been paid to play in professional groups with euphonium, trombone, upright bass, and electric bass (TOTALLY different instrument). One of my favorite college professors plays clarinet, bass clarinet, saxes, trombone, trumpet, flute, piano, and bass all equally well, and he's a beast who knows and has played with everyone in the business on whatever instrument he feels like playing. To me, doubling is a necessity to keep my musical sanity.

If you want to be a tuba player, play nothing but the tuba. If you want to be a MUSICIAN, play music, and use whatever tool you see fit to get you there. The knowledge you acquire on any instrument can be transferred to any other instrument; sometimes directly, sometimes not. My knowledge of the euphonium has helped learning bass just as much as it has with trombone.

Here are some quotes that always remind me of this:

"You can play a shoestring, if you're sincere." - Trane

"Imagine! They call me a great cellist. I am not a cellist. I am a musican. That is much more important." - Pablo Casals

And a passage from "The Music Lesson" by Victor Wooten

"...'Are you saying you can play any instrument?' I asked.

'Of course I can, and so can you! It is this knowing that separates us. A true writer can write using a typewriter, a pen, a pencil, or anything else that he chooses. You wouldn't call him a pencil writer, would you? Your understanding that the writing utensil is just a tool allows you to see past it and into the truth of what he is--a writer. The story is in the writer, is it not? Or is it in the pencil? Your problem is this: You have been trying to tell your story with a bass guitar instead of through it."

Nick

As someone who has doubled on bass t-bone since 6th grade, here are my thoughts...

1. Do it. You don't have to be amazing, just proficient. I've never lost a gig because I was able to do 2 instruments; however, I've scored a whole bunch because I was able to. If you are thinking of a musical career that involves a substantial amount of playing, you need to be as versatile as possible.

2. Go for a really big mouthpiece (maybe even a Doug Yeo Yamaha). It will make the transitions easier for you because you won't have to spend too much time learning how to deal with a totally different mouthpiece. You can use your tuba chops more easily. Some hardcore doublers and real trombone players will say that this is bad advice, but if you're just looking for a solid double you will appreciate the ease that a larger mouthpiece affords you even if it isn't the best brass pedagogy.

3. Learn how to play trombone, but learn how to play trombone IN TUNE. Tuba players don't have the ears for intonation that trombone players have. The best way to do this is by playing duets or simple warmups with another trombone player, though there are a few things you can buy that come with practice CDs. Do NOT simply use a tuner--this is pointless and teaches you nothing of the skill you need.

4. Learn electric and upright bass if possible. I wish I had.

Kyle

a2ba4u wrote:If you are thinking of a musical career that involves a substantial amount of playing, you need to be as versatile as possible.

I hear this presented as an argument for doubling often, but I still don't believe in it.

a2ba4u wrote:Tuba players don't have the ears for intonation that trombone players have.

What a ridiculous generalization.

I'll remind everyone reading this thread that the OP is a junior in high school preparing for his senior year. I respectfully submit that his time would be better spent becoming the best tuba player he can be right now.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I'll remind everyone reading this thread that the OP is a junior in high school preparing for his senior year. I respectfully submit that his time would be better spent becoming the best tuba player he can be right now.

Understood. But when I was in high school, I played cello in the orchestra (an instrument which I should never have stopped playing), euph in the band, and trombone in the jazz ensemble.

I auditioned at FSU on euphonium because that's what I was best at, and they took me to the side, offered me lots of scholarship, and asked me to come to FSU. I put all other instruments down for a while, but it was then that I started doodling on electric bass in my dorm room. One of the reasons I left FSU was because they frowned on doubling.

Learning more than one instrument is the best thing that could have happened to me as a musician. The versatility for gigs is great. As long as the original poster isn't cutting into shedding time on the tuba, but adding more shedding time to the end of that, I don't see the harm.

I would add that, when I'm working on acquiring gigs, I NEVER spout the list of instruments I double on, because there's an automatic thought that if I'm a doubler, I play each instrument at a lower level than another one that plays just one. But not when the majority of the day is spent working on nothing but music. If I'm working with a bandleader that hires many different instruments on a regular basis, I will let them know after a few gigs I have done well and only let him know what instrument is relevant to his hiring. So bandleaders are on a need-to-know basis with me. Even my business card doesn't say what instrument I play. It just says "Musician."

Nick

Whether you can or should double is more about whether you have the ability and desire; I don't think you should worry too much about any detriment it could cause...

I play Tuba, Bass Bone, Euph, Contrabass trombone/cimbasso, Tenor Bone, dixieland on peashooter and tuba, even ophicleide. There is a stigma that you have to work through (if you play more than one instrument, which one are you serious about, or are you proficient at any of them...). That's a long way off.

I would hastily direct you to the 1.5 G mouthpiece or SMALLER to learn the double. The greatest problem I've found with bass boners - even some "pros", is their lack of a high range. Having no high range and the general fuzzy tone for the rest of the range makes me tempted to strangle 'em ("It's a #$^@ trombone for god's sake!").

My teacher, Ray Premru, used a 2G. A wonderful player here in town plays a 3G when he doubles to bass. You must use a mouthpiece dedicated to the instrument you are playing, not serving the other instruments in your arsenal. Otherwise, why bother the rest of us with your half a$$ efforts - By all means, PLAY bass bone. Heck, I started bass bone in 10th grad with a 6.5 A mouthpiece. I now use a Jeff Reynolds L or a 1.25H (for my smaller basses). I like the sound they make; but you bet you buns I have a solid High C# on demand!

Don't listen to the nay-sayers; enjoy making music. double all you want - if you can... Not everyone can or should. But you're at the age where I would encourage you to try!

J.c.S.

The path to musical enlightenment and happiness is not always a linear one.

Will time spent practicing bass trombone take away from time spent on tuba? YES!

But...so what? You've got an opportunity to play bass trombone in a real setting, not just blowing on it in a practice room. If, after the school year you decide not to pursue the trombone any longer then you'll have only lost a few hours of "tuba time". More importantly, you'll have satisfied your curiousity and answered the "what if" question. In that sense alone you'll be happier for it. Who knows, you may end up liking the bass trombone enough to pursue it further. For those determined and gifted individuals that are REALLY serious, you CAN play two instruments at a world class level - James Markey is testimony to that, but that's really beyond the point of this discussion. For us regular folk, there are worse things in life than to be good on two instruments you enjoy playing.

Life is full of trade-offs. You just have to decide what is best for you.

One of my professors in college, Dr. Bill Prince, playing There Will Never Be Another You:

http://www.rondavisson.com/prince_ano.htm

He is playing the trumpet first, then a piano solo, then he plays sax. If you surf around this site, you'll hear him play clarinet on Avalon, and I'm pretty sure he plays flute on one of the other recordings.

I have a few CDs of him playing big band music that he arranged and recorded. He played every instrument in the big band and multi tracked them out. The funny thing about that recording, is he can't really honk out on a bass bone, so he plays bass clarinet instead for the recording. He mixed it really well, and you wouldn't be a ble to tell the difference.

Nick

Bob1062 wrote:Is that the Yamaha "German" style bass bone?

I think it is

Thanks for some of your input it is really helpful,
I do however have another quick question. So, today I played bass trombone with a friend of mine, who showed me the ropes of the instrument. We probably played for about an hour and 15 minutes just learning positions, notes, and some scales. Then I came home and started practicing on my tuba. While playing my tuba I was allover the place with my pitch and tone. Plus my lips became exhausted with only a little bit of playing. Will this continue to happen as I go between the two instruments or will it smooth out with time?

I'm willing to bet, unless you were focusing on the pedal register of the horn, when you were playing the bone with your friend you were playing in that horns normal register, which is an octave higher than the normal tuba register. Mouthpiece not withstanding, that still requires about the same amount of effort as it would to play the same notes on tuba. An hour and fifteen minutes of that, and yeah, I'd think that a bit of embochure trouble is to be expected, don't you?

Many tuba players want to use a mouthpiece that is too large on bass bone because they're used to big tuba mouthpieces, but I think that's a mistake. You may be a bass trombone player, but you're still a trombone player the second you pick up the horn and try to become a member of the trombone section.

If you pick a mouthpiece that's too big for you, you'll have trouble in the high register. You may think of yourself as a tuba player, but you must become a member of the trombone section. Don't choose a mouthpiece for trombone that allows you to think of yourself as a tuba player. Choose a decently sized trombone mouthpiece.

Personally, I was never comfortable on trombone with a mouthpiece larger than a Bach 3G (my personal favorite), and I tried a ton of them. I use large tuba mouthpieces since I play BBb most of the time and love pedal tones. But that philosophy doesn't work properly for trombone doublers. If you double, become a member of the section, not a resentful transplant.

I think at first you should decide what to do with your tuba playing in the future. Wanna go to college and continue develop your tuba playing and then go to auditions and become a pro in an orchestra? Or do you want to do something different, playing here and there, teaching a little bit etc.

If you want to become a pro in an orchestra I strongly recommend to stay at your tuba and practice just that. There a so many good players out there who want a job in an orchestra, you can't waste time by trying to learn trombone. Also the ongoing change of trombone mouthpiece to tuba mouthpiece won't be good for your embouchure, trying to gain pro level.

If you want to be a teacher and gig player, well, I think, you might learn trombone as well just to widen your opportunities.

I don't rate any of these two possibilities but I think you have to make up your mind in what direction your studying shall lead. If you want to become pro you really should stay at your instrument and try to become the best tuba player you can be.

so long tubasound

tuba114 wrote:Thanks for some of your input it is really helpful,
I do however have another quick question. So, today I played bass trombone with a friend of mine, who showed me the ropes of the instrument. We probably played for about an hour and 15 minutes just learning positions, notes, and some scales. Then I came home and started practicing on my tuba. While playing my tuba I was allover the place with my pitch and tone. Plus my lips became exhausted with only a little bit of playing. Will this continue to happen as I go between the two instruments or will it smooth out with time?

It does smooth out over time. I'm a tuba performance major, but joined the non-music major band playing euphonium and recently, bass bone. I found that after our two hour rehearsals,my face would be shot. I'D PLAY A GOOD WARM-DOWN EXERCISE LIKE THE PHIL TEAL(sp?) PEDALS and be great the next day. I never really got to the point where I could comfortably go straight from bone/euph to tuba and sound great, but i'm still working at it, and it gets easier every day.

Short and quick, do it! Playing bass trombone and tuba has been the most rewarding experience for me as a brass player. The opportunities on each instrument vary in ways that have kept music alive and fresh for me!

Paraphrasing Dan Perantoni from a recent masterclass here at Marshall University, he said to learn as many things in music as you can. Doubling your instruments doubles your chances for a gig. Learn music theory. Learn marching band maneuvering and drill writing. Learn music history. Learn composition and arranging. The more skills you have under your belt, the more chances you will have to get a job!

Mr. P himself said that if he were competing for a job today, he might not get it! Simply put, we need to be very versatile people, even if that just means you want to be a community band member, or if you aspire to be a college professor one day.