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Blue Knights 2006, Dark Knights, the contra feature.

2007 Bluecoats- hardest contra book yet.

THE TUBA wrote:2007 Bluecoats- hardest contra book yet.

That's a bold claim...I wonder how you would know.

It wasn't easy. I personally contacted all of the drum corps arrangers for DCI, DCA, old VFW corps, European corps, and a few others that don't fit into conventional categories and requested/payed for their contra parts. I then put all of the tuba parts into Finale and wrote a computer program that would sort them from most 16th notes to least. Such an organization was not, of course, entirely accurate; I had to personally weed through the first 65 (or so) pages to determine ten parts that are the most technically challenging. I also bought recordings of the top technically difficult parts to listen to and determine the overall volume and level of excellence that was performed.
All in all, it was an imperfect system. I did not go into phrasing, range, or orchestration issues. Some might say that an exposed tutti ppp section is more difficult than a densely orchestrated ff sixteenth run. I also did not take into consideration instrument problems, and the inherent pros/cons with each type of instrument.
The whole process took about seven months to complete, but I'm happy with the results.

the elephant wrote:Come on down and play my King K-90.

I played a K-90 for a couple summers a few years ago when I marched senior corps. Then I got my Kanstul 3V GG Contra Grande and it dwarfs the K-90. It is at least 2" taller (longer), the bell is 2" larger in diameter, it is several pounds heavier and is even harder to balance. It also take a load more air, but you are rewarded with a really big, fat sound. It was fun playing it with the Kingsmen Alumni Corps at DCI Semi-finals last August. Keep in mind that I am 6'6" and over 300 lbs... so that is one big horn!



Kingsmen's performance at DCI Semi-finals on YouTube

Actually, the 2008 show for the Rochester Crusaders has an amazing tuba book. For those ofyou who follow, we are performing Russian Orchestral music again, and there are lots of great tuba features throughout the show.

I don't claim to know who had the toughest part. That would involve being intimately familiar with A LOT of music!

But I can safely say that our contra part in 2001 Devils was pretty salty. We had an amazing section that year, as opposed to the very average one we had the year before. '01 was also the first year we had the 4-valve Willsons. Man those were nice!

That was a great year. We were obviously disappointed that we lost to the Cavies, but still pretty proud that we won brass that year.

Bandmaster wrote:

the elephant wrote:Come on down and play my King K-90.

I played a K-90 for a couple summers a few years ago when I marched senior corps. Then I got my Kanstul 3V GG Contra Grande and it dwarfs the K-90. It is at least 2" taller (longer), the bell is 2" larger in diameter, it is several pounds heavier and is even harder to balance. It also take a load more air, but you are rewarded with a really big, fat sound. It was fun playing it with the Kingsmen Alumni Corps at DCI Semi-finals last August. Keep in mind that I am 6'6" and over 300 lbs... so that is one big horn!

I spent four summers under one of those 5/4 Kanstul Grandes. beastly horns, fun to play, badass to be seen with. Especially in DIV II, where the other lines would have tiny deg or yamaha Bb's.
Pic of Kanstul next to a York Master for comparison (sorry for poor quality, its a cell phone pic)




yep, big, big horns

KevinMadden wrote:Pic of Kanstul next to a CC York Master for comparison (sorry for poor quality, its a cell phone pic).....

yep, big, big horns

OK, clearer photos comparing very similar horns... Kanstul GG next to a BBb York-Master





Hey Kevin, just in case you didn't know... the bell on my York-Master in these photos used to live on your horn. I bought the over-sized extra bare brass bell from Dillons when David Unland sent it there on consignment. I had it fixed up and silver plated and use it now most of the time instead of the bell front bell. Tell David it found a good home.

wow, small world. Will do bandmaster!

THE TUBA wrote:2007 Bluecoats- hardest contra book yet.

It was certainly one of the most, "Hey, listen to the contras!"-type books out there. Cadets '91 (where you at, Gary?) was neat, too, playing the 4-over-3 in the opener while anticipating the jam block in the pit.

There have been a bunch of cool contra books out there. I can probably count on Wayne Downey writing nice parts every year (remember his comment in the Brass Roots video about seeing Scouts play "God Bless The Child" for the first time -- "Contras can play that?! Wow!"). Bluecoats isn't Bluecoats without a good contra line, and neither is Phantom. I've also had some ridiculously hard licks to play back in Railmen and where I work now.

I hate having a part get hosed down. I'll make my section play anything that's put in front of us. The blacker the page, the better.

At the other end of the difficulty spectrum, I can't help but laugh to myself when I hear a line play nothing but potato notes for five minutes -- that is, if they're playing at all. I'd have lost my mind by February if I were given a book like that.

I find the term "hardest contra book ever" to be a little vague. I do agree that some books are more challenging and more fun to play than others. Let's face it, some just suck. That's why they haven't been mentioned in this thread.

While I will always have a special place in my heart for Bluecoats, especially the 2007 season, it's not my favorite contra book, sound-wise. That title would probably have to go to a Phantom Regiment from recent memory or a Garfield Cadets from the 80's. The Bluecoats contra book, however, was probably one of the funnest books to play. Even if there was a bad night, the book was still hella-fun to play.

2007 Bluecoats Contra book hardest ever??? I think not. Our main goal in 2007 for the contra line was to get the section playing something not normally heard in the drum corps world, movement in the true low end of the corps. We feel like we accomplished that while also having a hella-fun time with the book.

Last year, we (Pioneer) had a somewhat fun book for the season. I especially liked the contra feature that we had on the Gary Owen ending...And yes, IT WAS ON A G BUGLE!!!!!!!
Although our new Bb Kings are way easier, I still like the G Dynasties we had, just for the sake of being badass...You compare them to the Bb's of today, and they're pretty beastly.
I won't say whether any hornlines had a harder part, because what can add to difficulty of a part is drill, too. But I think the hardest part would be one that is very notey, where the corps is marching all over, and on a G horn.

Warning:Rant
Just my little thing against the Cadets: George Hopkins. I think (and bet) that he was one of those that helped get corps to move to a mixed hornline. Also, due to some of the new rules that he passed, there is speculation that he wants to make DCI into a for-profit, Powerband. This is since he wanted a mic on brass instruments, etc...and also wants a sax in the pit.
Anyways, just my view of things
END rant

As I said, just my perspective.

tubaguy9 wrote:
Warning:Rant
Just my little thing against the Cadets: George Hopkins. I think (and bet) that he was one of those that helped get corps to move to a mixed hornline. Also, due to some of the new rules that he passed, there is speculation that he wants to make DCI into a for-profit, Powerband. This is since he wanted a mic on brass instruments, etc...and also wants a sax in the pit.
Anyways, just my view of things
END rant

As I said, just my perspective.

Heard rumors about these things too... The cadets would make a good marching band

I've actually had the amplified pit rule work in my favor. The Spartans do not amplify their pit. (at least not 4 years ago, now they're in Bb and who knows what else has changed) At one show for some reason some of the pit's cases were out in the pit during a show (I think is was raining before the performance, and everything was covered) The press box percussion judge's tape that night was filled with how much he liked our use of amplified pit, so tasteful, really lets the players hang back and be musical, rather than trying to pound on the instruments and be musical, etc. etc. About 6 minutes in to the tape, the judge says, "oh wait, those are cases and covers, not speakers.....damn" (we won percussion that evening )

KevinMadden wrote:

tubaguy9 wrote:
Warning:Rant
Just my little thing against the Cadets: George Hopkins. I think (and bet) that he was one of those that helped get corps to move to a mixed hornline. Also, due to some of the new rules that he passed, there is speculation that he wants to make DCI into a for-profit, Powerband. This is since he wanted a mic on brass instruments, etc...and also wants a sax in the pit.
Anyways, just my view of things
END rant

As I said, just my perspective.

Heard rumors about these things too... The cadets would make a good marching band

I've actually had the amplified pit rule work in my favor. The Spartans do not amplify their pit. (at least not 4 years ago, now they're in Bb and who knows what else has changed) At one show for some reason some of the pit's cases were out in the pit during a show (I think is was raining before the performance, and everything was covered) The press box percussion judge's tape that night was filled with how much he liked our use of amplified pit, so tasteful, really lets the players hang back and be musical, rather than trying to pound on the instruments and be musical, etc. etc. About 6 minutes in to the tape, the judge says, "oh wait, those are cases and covers, not speakers.....damn" (we won percussion that evening )

Yeah...George Hopkins just make me unhappy...but then again, I like more of the "old school" style of corps.

tubadude1301 wrote:My pick, based of the shows that I have seen or heard, would be Phantom '05. Rhapsody had some killer parts...

Have you heard Phantom '02? Of all the years I marched Regiment, it was probably my favorite contra book. I wasn't a big fan of 05', probably because I spent most of the season on the sidelines (torn anterior tibialis)


As far as contra part "difficulty" goes, even these hard parts aren't too terribly difficult. From 2000-2005 I saw most of the corps' contra books, and nothing in them would be not playable by an intermediate tubist. The difficulty comes in the visual that comes before/after/during these parts. Cleanliness is also paramount and the parts can't be more difficult than can be heard cleanly 50 yards away. You'd also be suprised how certain corps use "tricks" to make things seem more difficult than they are. That's a credit to the designers, especially with the cavaliers, than it is a dog on the performers.


(hopefully gas prices won't kill drum corps...)

Talking of difficulty...Does hardest contra book include the whole brass book?
As far as this year, Pioneer has the hardest brass book, as said by judges...
The conta part? Not that hard, but the pieces we're playing, you all have played all but one before...
Holst suite in Eb
Harkstow Grange (part of Lincolnshire Posy)
Celtic Symphony
Crown Imperial

Familiar music= difficult, 'cause everyone know the stuff.