TubeNet

Consider a conversion to Du-bro linkages.

You've probably seen them before. Here is a picture of Rick Denney's B&S F tuba with the said linkage:



There is a nice description and write-up of what they are, where to get them, and how to install them at http://rickdenney.com/valve_linkages.htm

I had them on my personal B&S F tuba (which I no longer own) and thought they were great. Super cheap (well under $50 for all necessary parts), very durable, extremely functional, and adjustable.

I've got minibal linkage on my Alexander CC. It's fine (and new enough that I'm not looking to replace it just yet), but has more play in it and is much more noisy (and yes, they're well maintained) than my Du-bro links ever were. FYI, minibal linkages are very expensive, especially if they are not direct bolt ons for your application.

I had use of a 186 with the old white ball and sockets.I thought they were pretty decent.Quiet and quick.Those parts are still available if you just need to replace some.Otherwise,you could be looking at several hundred not including shipping or travel.

tubashaman wrote:I know a guy in dallas who can do them, hes the only person I trust with my tubas (Mr. Houghton in Keller), but just getting an estimate

Well, you'll have to call Mr. Houghton to get his estimate.

Reminds me of people calling me at the auto parts store to find out how much so-and-so would charge to put on an alternator for them.

A few years back when I was looking to have my B&S F upgraded to the 3B unibal (like on Meinl/B&S), the unibals alone were about $50 each.....so $100/valve....and that was 'at cost'. Now, I'm sure they have gone up a bit in the past few years, so an estimate of $800 or more is not really out reason considering that it does take a bit of time to adjust for each valve....especially on an older instrument which might require some custom fabrication of the linkage arms and posts to properly align the stroke action.

Did it make a difference for me? Heck yeah! At least I didn't have the plastic sockets popping off on gigs any longer or binding from being worn out. The valve action after the conversion was night and day.....and muuuuuuuch better!

I'd only recommend it if you really like the instrument and think its gonna be in your lap for the next several years. Also, get a competent repair person to do the work.....I lucked out and had a really great guy do some SUPERB work on my B&S and I can't thank him enough to this day!

Cheers,
Josh

Just for the hell of it I did a little Googling and came up with this website for RC racing stuff and did a search for "rod ends" and found this:

http://www.rcplanet.com/SearchResults.a ... earch.y=11

Lots of different style rod ends and most for really cheap. For example this kit for $6.55, you can't get much cheaper. Buy two and keep them for spares.


They also have lots of "turnbuckle" rods in various sizes and lengths, even anodized in various colors to pimp your tuba.
http://www.rcplanet.com/SearchResults.a ... Search.y=9



Who knows, maybe these might be a direct replacement for those old Miraphone plastic ends.


They also have a large listing of Du-Bro rod ends:


Have fun searching through all the pages and pages of small parts they offer.

Tom wrote:Consider a conversion to Du-bro linkages.

There is a nice description and write-up of what they are, where to get them, and how to install them at http://rickdenney.com/valve_linkages.htm

The Du-bro uniball are available at RC Hobby shops for around $4 each. They come with everything you need to make the conversion and anyone with average skills and average mechanical knowledge can do it. I think that a reasonalble repair shop price for the conversion would be around $125.

I have done this conversion for a couple of horns I've owned but feel better with the all metal uni-balls that you see on a lot of European horns. I think Du-bro uniballs pictured above are far superior to the other uniball styles in the thread.

I never liked the Miraphone linkage at the top of the thread: too much wear too soon. On the same thought, plastic linkage was not make with withstand the kind of workout it would receive from a brass player, it was made for relatively limited movement, low stress conditions. Life span on the Du-bro, while cheaply replaced, was a couple of years maximum for me.

Alex C wrote:...I never liked the Miraphone linkage at the top of the thread: too much wear too soon. On the same thought, plastic linkage was not make with withstand the kind of workout it would receive from a brass player, it was made for relatively limited movement, low stress conditions. Life span on the Du-bro, while cheaply replaced, was a couple of years maximum for me.

The white plastic Miraphone ball ends on my 186 were cracked and binding when the tuba came to me. The plastic looked oxidized, or perhaps attacked by UV. I liked the nice, turned connection shafts, but they were no more than a dozen years old at the time, and I am not a pro and had no pull with the factory and thus had to buy replacement parts at retail. I replaced them with the Du-Bro ball ends just like the ones I used on my B&S (as pictured in this thread), and they are still fine after something like 18 years.

All the tubas I have converted to the Du-Bro ball ends a couple of decades ago are still doing service on those tubas, including those used by professionals. So, I can't explain your experience with going through them so frequently. You can adjust for wear by tightening the screws, and you still have to keep them lubricated. Are you lubing them or cleaning them with something (like alcohol) that attacks the plastic? What is the failure mode? But if for some reason you do wear them out, they are cheap and easy to replace.

Rick "noting that metal can wear faster than plastic in some types of service" Denney

I did use valve oil for lubrication but the main "difficulty" I experienced was with the adjustment screw. Though I rarely adjusted them, they eventually stripped. I also got binding in a couple of instances; replacing the Du-bro fixed the problem. I would encourage this exchange for many people but in most of my playing venues I don't need to be worrying about mechanical (real or imagined) issues.

I didn't mean to indicate that the Du-bro is a bad replacement but the all-metal uniballs are more likely to be "lifetime" fix.

Alex C wrote:I did use valve oil for lubrication but the main "difficulty" I experienced was with the adjustment screw. Though I rarely adjusted them, they eventually stripped. I also got binding in a couple of instances; replacing the Du-bro fixed the problem. I would encourage this exchange for many people but in most of my playing venues I don't need to be worrying about mechanical (real or imagined) issues.

I didn't mean to indicate that the Du-bro is a bad replacement but the all-metal uniballs are more likely to be "lifetime" fix.

I suppose that depends on whose lifetime. Maybe you are practicing too much, heh, heh. Like I said, I have conversions going back 20 years that continue to work perfectly, but even in the case of professional use, they are probably not being used four hours a day.

I would really like to study your installation and the failed ball joints (I realize they are probably long-since in the trash), because I recommend these things and there may be a situation to avoid. And my engineering brain demands an explanation, heh, heh.

All-metal uniballs are just as likely to wear if the oil is inadequate--perhaps even moreso. And they are not adjustable, harder to fix in the field, heavier, and much more costly. Make sure you keep them lubed with something a bit thicker than valve oil. I use the same oil that I use for the rotor bearings--a light machine oil of the 3in1 variety, or the Hetman equivalent (Hetman has that lovely needle-point applicator bottle that lets me point one drop right where it needs to go).

Rick "who agrees that the objective is to remove the issue from conscious thought" Denney

I just found a new website with some really quality replacement parts available for this converstion. I need to update an old Miraphone here pretty soon so I was dong some more searching and came across it.

http://www.rcrockcrawling.com/index.php?cPath=51

- Aluminum and available in colors - Price $2.99 ea

- Stainless Steel - Price $3.49 ea

- Link rods of various lengths, and they look bendable - Price $3.50 to 4.50 ea

Makes for a nice clean looking installation if you ask me, and for not much money.

LJV wrote:Miraphone now offered a kit to upgrade old linkages to their all metal unibals.

Some limited mechanical skill is required.

For how much????? And where can you buy it???

.

Regarding lubricating ball joints: Hetman makes "ball joint oil." It's very thick, and is exactly right for metal mini-balls. It comes with a needle applicator. Probably would work well for the plastic ones.

I wouldn't use a very light oil such as valve oil on ball joints.

Allen

tubashaman2 wrote:Todd and others,

Don't pre-judge Houghton till you get a tuba cleaned/fixed/whatever by him...

Glad you have found a horn jockey you like.

The point being made was trying to get an estimate over the phone. Some estimates- like the price of a chem clean - might be possible over the phone. Estimates for conversion work need the horn on the bench and examined before the price can at all be close to reality.

Greg wrote:hmmm.....I don't remember starting this thread. What was the original question?

It's a puzzle, isn't it? The first post makes no sense on its own -- it seems to refer to an earlier post, which apparently got lost somewhere along the way (there seem to be other posts missing, too).

tubashaman2 wrote:Todd and others,

Don't pre-judge Houghton till you get a tuba cleaned/fixed/whatever by him...

What the heck are you talking about, James?

I never said anything about Mr. Houghton or his abilities. I questioned you on asking the forum how much he might charge and suggested you call him for an estimate, not ask strangers on a bulletin board. I'd love for you to explain to me how that is "pre-judging" someone I don't even know.

Of course, that was nearly a year ago...before you threw your fit and "quit" TubeNet. How'd that work out, again?

I just got my parts from RC Rock Crawling and I can say that the rods are nice and beefy and would work. The rod ends have too much play in them and make too much noise when hooked up. Back they go.

Uhm, Rick. . .What's the Hetman equivalent to 3in1?

sailn2ba wrote:Uhm, Rick. . .What's the Hetman equivalent to 3in1?

#14 Bearing and Linkage Oil.

Rick "who likes the applicator" Denney