Differences between B&S F-tubas?

[samulirask]

I´m probably purchasing a B&S PT11 tuba. I´ve been testing it for a couple of weeks, and I don´t find any real weaknesses in it. Even the usually difficult range below the staff is more or less as good as it can be - to my surprise.

I´d still like to know that what are the differencies between the B&S F tubas that "look the same" - by that I mean between PT10 & 11 and PT15 and 16, or the new JBL model? There are little differencies in the specs, but how big the differences actually are? I haven´t got the chance to test these horns side by side.

I like the PT11, but my concern is that how well it works in small ensembles in the long run (I´ve played the horn in one quintet rehearsal with ok success). Would PT15 or the new JBL model work significantly better?

[Roger Lewis]

The JBL is capable of and incredible amount of presence - in any ensemble. There are some differences in the design that distinguish it from the other B&S models. The 5th valve has been moved farther up the leadpipe and away from the 6th valve a bit, and the 6th valve tubing runs from side-to-side instead of up and down. I use this instrument in one of the quintets I play in and it does just fine. I use a Tilz M2 on it and it basically plays itself. Fabulous horn.

I had a PT10 a long time ago and this horn is so much better. Thinking back, my PT10 just said Perantucci on the bell so it was one of the very early ones. In any case, I won't be needing or looking for another F tuba.

Peace.
Roger

[samulirask]

I had a PT10 a long time ago and this horn is so much better. Thinking back, my PT10 just said Perantucci on the bell so it was one of the very early ones. In any case, I won't be needing or looking for another F tuba.

I have a feeling that B&S is developing all of their models all the time, since the instruments are handcrafted. Am I right?

At least I like this PT11 I´m testing pretty much: Good "B&S:ish" sound and all registers work well, no stuffy notes anywhere, and it has that good, very easy response that I have used to in my B&S Apollo. I asked this actually because I can´t really think of the way the other models could be better. It´s really a shame that it would take at least a couple of months more to get the JBL model for me to a testing.

[YorkNumber3]

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[samulirask]

I selected from four Pt15 and two "JBL".

Wow. Things here in Finland are a bit different. The company that imports these horns has only one PT11 in the stock (the one I´m testing), and they´re waiting JBL´s to arrive in June or July. There´s no way to compare individual instruments.

Anyway, as I said I like the PT11 quite a lot. It´s also very well in tune, much much better than my B&S Apollo. Only the couple of notes below the staff are a bit sharp, although they are very open. This instrument is also very light and easy to play, probably because of the five valves.

The thing I was wondering that how the sound is different between PT 11, PT 15 and JBL - I have no chance to test it myself.

Anyway, because the little market in this country limits the freedom of choice, I will probably buy this PT11. I´m in the lucky position that I don´t have to pay it myself..!

[YorkNumber3]

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[samulirask]

A PT11 should have 6 valves, I believe.

This is from the older B&S web page: http://www.vogtlaendische-musik.de/tuba/" target="_blank" target="_blank

3099/2/W (PT-10)
F-Tuba "B&S-Perantucci" 5 rotary valves right One-tone and two-tone slide for 5th valve Graduated bore: 19-21 mm (0.748-0.827´´)
Bell diameter: 420 mm (16-1/2´´)
Height: 97 cm (38´´)
3099/1/W (PT-11)

same as 3099/2/W (PT-10) but 4 valves right, 5th valve left

(By the way, it´s strange that they have two homepages, the newer is

http://www.ja-musik.com/tuba/index.php" target="_blank" target="_blank )

[YorkNumber3]

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[samulirask]

Interesting!

I went by this page: http://www.custommusiccorp.com/tubas/pt11.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

PT-11
Specifications:
4/4 size 'F' tuba
.745" to .825" graduated bore
6 rotary valves
16 5/8" upright bell.

Maybe they grow a valve on the boat!

Actually, the six valve model must be PT12 - or PT16 if it has the bell with large throat (In fact I think it´s this "large throat bell" that makes the difference in sound.)

The model names and numbers are so close to each other that I wonder if they even know themselves which model n:o they are manufacturing...

By the way, the ja-musik -site has got two interesting F-tuba models on the bottom of the page: B&S Apollo and B&S Volcano. I think they are new models of the old Apollo (which I´ve been using). These newer ones have smaller bell diameter - the original had 48 cm bell, these have 45 cm bell. They look similar, but Volcano has got piston valves. If they have developed the instruments "difficult range" and intonation, the tubas could be very good. But has anyone ever even seen one? (Wasn´t Volcano a planet that was thought to be between the Mercury and the sun in late 19th century? It turned out that this "planet" was actually some sort of optical illusion in some researchers equipment..?)

[samulirask]

The planet believed to be between Mercury and the Sun was Vulcan. Scientists believed a planet was there based on some inconsistencies in Mercury's orbit (much like how Neptune was discovered). The inconsistent orbit didn't jive with Newton's law of universal gravity. Later, Einstein's theory of relativity allowed for exceptions in Newton's law of universal gravity, and the explanation for those inconsistencies in Mercury's orbit were explained.

In other words, Vulcan is only a place where Mr. Spock grew up.

It was believed that, after observing Neptune, a ninth planet was out there affecting the orbit of Neptune. Really, it was just an inconsistency explainable by Einstein's theory of relativity. Pluto's discovery was actually a coincidence. And on top of that, it's not really a planet (nod to the Oort cloud).

Thank you for correcting me..! I read a book about Vulcan in finnish some years ago, and in finnish it was called Vulkanus, and somehow I thought that it would be Volcano in english... but now i realise that Volcano in english means - volcano (not Vulcan)... Surprising..!