MW 2265...?

[runelk]

What ever happened to the new 2265 that came out? Are there any pro's that are playing it? How does it compare to the 2165

[Tom]

They were produced.

You probably won't find a dealer that has one, as they tend to be made-to-order.

Matt Good played one with the Dallas Symphony this past season and sounded amazing, however he'd sound awesome on a Jinbao.

It is a major improvement over the stock 2165...they fixed some response issues and cleaned up a lot of intonation issues. The wrap of the horn is slightly different too, but is only noticed upon close inspection. Along with the wrap, the leadpipe is different. Very nice option for a 6/4 piston CC. I would guess the price to be in line with that of the Hirsbrunner HB-50 "Yorkbrunner" (upwards of $15,000) based upon the current price of its handmade little brother, the Meinl Weston 2000 ($12,500), if you wanted to order one.

[Tom]

Is the 2265 handmade just like the 2000?

Yes, perhaps even more so than the 2000

[Jarrod]

The 2265 Matt has is one of, if not the, best tuba I've ever played. The one Tom heard him play is actually a "dud" compared to the new one he just got. I am not sure what improvement/changes were made to the "dud", so I'm not going to elude to that.

I don't know if Meinl is making them for people yet, or if this is still in the research stage. All I know is this horn is like a 6/4 version of the best 2000 I've played.

[bberlien]

I have to echo Jarrod's sentiments about Matt Good's new handmade 2265. I had the opportunity to play it at Dillon Music before they sent it to Matt. As the owner of a great 2000, this 2265 was the best MW I've ever played. While it puts out 6/4 sound, it plays like a great 4/4. A colleague of mine thought it was the clearest 6/4 he'd ever played or heard.

A few weeks later I played the stock 2265 Matt used last season and it didn't come close to the new handmade one. From what I've been told, the 2265s will be manufactured like the 2000's and imported through Dillon's in a special arrangement to insure the highest standards of quality control.

I urge any player who currently uses a 6/4 for orchestral work to contact Matt Walters about the 2265/2. Also, the horn came with several leadpipes. I found the small (45) pipe superior to any of the larger ones.

[Tom]

The 2265 Matt has is one of, if not the, best tuba I've ever played. The one Tom heard him play is actually a "dud" compared to the new one he just got.

Yeah...I knew he had a new one coming to him in very early July with interchangable leadpipes and some other tweaks. They made the 45 SLP leadpipe for it as his request...he thinks there is really something special about it and had one put on his 2165 (along with a ton of other mods...that 2165 is an awesome tuba too) before the switch to the 2265.

I can't wait to hear the latest version in the orchestra.

[Chuck(G)]

...the price to be in line with that of the Hirsbrunner HB-50 "Yorkbrunner" (upwards of $15,000) based upon the current price of its handmade little brother, the Meinl Weston 2000 ($12,500), if you wanted to order one.

I wonder if the price of labor is what Gerhard Meinl's up to with his startup of the Joseph Sternberg operation in Hungary. Eastern European labor doesn't have the 35-hour workweek and pay scale that Germany does and there's the specter of Far East production on the horizon:

http://www.joseph-sternberg.com/

[Pete Link]

Aaron Mccalla owns a horn built for him by Warren that to my understanding became the 2265. I played this horn and thought it to be a huge improvement over the production 2165's. The horn centered very well and played very easy while putting out lots of sound.
Just my thoughts.


Pete

[Tom]

Aaron Mccalla owns a horn built for him by Warren that to my understanding became the 2265.

Yes, it is my understanding that a couple prototype horns are floating around. I do know that Matt Good had a major hand in designing his 2265 tubas, but the overall design/redesign was done by Warren Deck.

All of the Warren Deck prototype horns are amazing. I know of the prototype 2155 he built, along with several 2165s, and two 45-SLP F tubas.

[imperialbari]

Eastern European labor doesn't have the 35-hour workweek and pay scale that Germany does and there's the specter of Far East production on the horizon:

http://www.joseph-sternberg.com/

Hungary has no instrument brands with a reputation in western Europe. Yet the extremely high level Hungarian orchestral tradition must have encouraged an environment of skilled instrument technicians.

The discrepancy between west and east salaries is nothing new. Already around 1970 a music store in Flensborg just south of the Danish border took in repairs of brasses and woodwinds without having a repairman in the store.

Instead the owner loaded his van once a week and drove to Budapest unloading at a Hungarian repair shop. He then reloaded the van with the completed repairs delivered the previous week.

Even with the costs of the 24 hours+ roundtrip this scheme was attractive for the customers, the German dealer, and the Hungarian repairmen.

And Flensborg is not any ole town in a brass context. Even after WWII there was a production of brass instruments there. I think the owner's name was Schmidt (meaning blacksmith and a very common name on both sides of the border). The grand old man of Danish brass repair and re-construction, Herbert "Horn" Petersen, apprenticed at that factory in Flensborg.

As for the far east aspect: already in 1999 one of the best known tuba designers (and quality controllers) of our time told me in a phone talk, that the conglomerate he was associated with had productions made in China. Not yet satisfactory enough to carry a western brand name but hastily improving.

There still are no Chinese instruments out with names related to that company, but the German brass market is flooded with Chinese instruments carrying funny names. We chide the Chinese, but maybe they more often are working to Western orders, than we know.

However the Chinese have a major problem in their way of basic thinking: like the Muslims they find it all right to cheat anybody not being one of their own.

We have had main problems with Chinese restaurants keeping the hygiene standards set by the authorities. They smile and bow, but whisper: "**** the paleheads!". I know! I have been there and even have got one of them out of jail. He was not guilty on the given account.

Hans Pizka, like him or not, is a major brass authority closely related to the tuba designer mentioned above here. He has supervised Chinese horn production.

His experience is, that for the Chinese workers at a horn factory, their workday was not about getting something done, but all about the social experience of getting a maximum of chatting.

The ideal way of turning a rotor out of stock brass is to do it in one seamless operation. However the Chinese found out, that it was easier to turn the rotor axis 180° in the middle of the process. Very effective numberwise, but not ensuring seamlessness and a true alignment of the bearings at each end.

Pizka and a western engineer pointed that out to the foreman. Bow and smile! And an immediate correction of the process.

A control visit the next day revealed, that business was carried out as usual. Not even a single production advise had been followed. Basically speaking to Chinese is like speaking to women, just to illustrate the magnitude of the problem. Not a sexist statement, but a sociological observation. I live in a nation, where a state employed male lawyer is as rare as an amateur tubist playing in tune. The results are horryfying.

OK, I have danced along a few tangents, but the smart ones among you will read right through the escapades down to the main point.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, but don't you think you could have offended someone?

Of course! Even did it very purportedly. I am against anybody pursuing non-humanistic and non-ethical agendas.

Having lived in three nations and having worked in two of them has taught me quite a lot.

So has a career as a teacher supporting the less privileged students, also those with an immigrant background.

As a retiree I of course acted as a volunteer refugee councellor in my hometown. After all I am pretty well versed in law and in handling bureaucracy. Of course I also assisted my own countrymen in need.

But then I after a decade of volunteering had my eyes opened about the refugee industry.

The boat-refugees out of Vietnam for a great part was about Chinese scamming the naive, or more likely corrupt, UN refugee system in Hong Kong.

The muslim invasion of Europe is a double scam:

criminal traffickers earning a fortune

imams planning the overtake of new countries.

And yes I am living in a town partially in siege by Muslims. We don't have a metro or an underground train system, but our bus system from time to time is inacessible by Danes.

I strictly am pro giving a shelter for refugees in need, but I resent invaders in greed. Our welfare system is crumbling by Palestinian and Somalian abuse. But then of course wee feed the warlords of their home countries by the literal feedback by the refugee system scammers.

As for my other big bias aired: just take a look at the breakdown of middle class family structures over the last four decades.

Klaus

[bberlien]

Last I heard from Diilons, the price will be a couple thousand above a 2000. Matt Walters is pretty much the only person who could nail down a price for you - anyone interested in a 2265/2 should contact him: matt@dillonmusic.com