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Practicing on my Conn 11J at home and then playing the 186's at rehearsal and performances is getting to be more and more diffucult the more I practice. They have very different "feedback" when playing. I actually like a horn that provides allot of resonant feedback to my chops when I play. I think it is the same as a horn that slots well. I think it is also part of the reason I don't do well when trying to just buzz the mouthpiece or buzz without a mouthpiece. I can feel the resonance of the note in my chops, it is what tells me where the center of the note is for that horn. On the horn this characteristic is attributed to a long taper in the mouthpipe. Is it the same for tubas. What attributes of tuba design/construction provide for a tuba that responds quickly and slots well?

You don't tell which instrument works best for you, so it is a bit hard to be specific. You don't even tell, whether you use the same mouthpiece on both instruments.

Personally I don't at all like rotary valve tubas, even if I have no problems with rotary valves on smaller instruments. People accustomed with both variants most often do well, but as knowledgeable a man as Bob Tucci once told me, that it takes exactly experience with both types to manage them, as they react rather differently.

As I remember it, you took up the tuba rather recently due to dystonia problems with the horn. For logistic reasons it may be a necessary decision to practice on one type of tuba, and do band work on the other type. However that doesn't necessarily make it a wise decision in regards of your development as a tuba player.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

The difference in resonance probably is related to the playing differences between home and a larger practice room or hall. If you practice under a dropped, acoustic tile ceiling, like I do, there will be darned little resonance at all.

I recommend sticking with the buzzing practice. I like to use a tuner when buzzing.

Good luck.

In my experience, relying on feedback from the instrument is not a good thing, for 3 reasons: 1, the horn lies to you. It's an imperfect machine created by an imperfect human afterall. It doesn't know what a Bb is, it just knows how to vibrate based on what it thinks sounds good, and from there we have to teach it our rules. 2, that A or that F# you play that feels the most open and resonant at that exact pitch isn't going to fall into that exact frequency in every key when you're thinking in 'well temperament'. And 3, relying on feedback psychologically conditions yourself to play with your lips instead of playing with your ear.

It's a hard thing to do, especially when you can feel that awesome resonance just surging through your body.

I forgot who it was that championed the idea of playing with your ear instead of your lips. It was either Jacobs or Kleinhammer (or both, I can't recall).

I prefer the feel of the Conn 11J, though it is one out of tune mother. And it does have a few notes that just don't have a center. Which is why I use the 186's for community band. They are just entirely better in tune.

Ya'll make some good points. I do very much play with my ears, ie sound/intonation feedback to tell me if I'm getting my desired results. I guess my desire to have that feedback from the horn to my chops does handcuff me to needing and relying on a really good horn. It is quite disconcerting to land on a note that is centering really out of tune.

Wouldn't the short term find its best solution, if you loaned the 186 for home practice also?

I like, as stated before, the American and UK piston instruments, so I understand your preferred feel. However I see a major obstacle to your steady progress in the shifts between the good-feel & rotten-intonation and the less-comforting & better-intonation constellations. After all you are not yet established as a tuba player.

Klaus

Oh, I use a Conn Helleberg on both. I tried a Kelly 18 for a little while, and it seemed to provide some benefit response wise, but I couldn't get used to the feel of the plastic. I much prefer the weighty feel of the metal mouthpiece. I also prefered the sound of the Helleberg to the 18.

I think I smell someone who is ready for a good private teacher.I bet there's a bunch right here on tubenet for your area.1 real lesson can equal many hours of banter on tubenet where we can't hear you...

Bottom line, you are over-thinking the issue. Just play.

That having been said, you need to become comfortable replicating notes on the mouthpiece alone. This is one of those skills that is developed over time. Five to ten minutes of buzzing per day will greatly improve your accuracy and confidence and help you "hear" and "feel" notes before you play them.

Also, work on your aural skills. Learn intervals and sing them to help internalize them. This will also help your note accuracy.

Remember, the horn doesn't make noise if you're not blowing into it. The buzz is what makes the sound. DON'T LET THE HORN PUSH YOU AROUND.

2 more thoughts for you: re.-buzzing.Try putting an 8 inch long piece of tubing on the end of the mouthpiece.It gives a little resistance and really makes it easier to hear the pitch you're buzzing.Thought 2-your 11j may be a POS.Life is too short to play bad tubas.Find some way to get a better tuba.Maybe just find a good way to transport the 186 back and forth.If you sell the 11j,you could probably buy a really good wheeled case or nice gigbag.I for one feel happier with 2 horns I know I can sound good on and that really function well in my stable.I did some things many people would consider crazy to get those horns and mod them for my use(driving 3k miles,spending considerable money,sleeping in a log cabin with 2 dozen chickens,etc...)I DARE the phone to ring with a difficult gig