TubeNet

Anyone have any info on this horn? How do they compare to a miraphone 191?

I can't speak for the sound, but I can tell you that I had a devil of a time with the .835 bore on the 191. I just couldn't fill it, properly (I own and play a 186 - .770 bore). I must say that the Miraphone's sound (even with my difficulties) was very large, responsive and resonant! The Allora is slightly smaller in bore (.827) and would seemingly be a bit easier to fill - although not much. The obvious difference is in the price (WWBW $3,200, vs $7007 for the Miraphone at Dillon's. From what I have read on this forum, the Allora's in general are OK horns, but not as consistently made, nor do they have the famous Miraphone intonation (good, that is). Just my $.02

thanks for the info, yea a new miraphone is kinda out of my price range

I liked the sound, but take this into account. I had one in my repair shop a couple months ago in need of a new linkage and stop arm. I could not easily get parts and ended up having to manufacture them. I love projects but I don't have time for those and would love to be able to just order the right part. Hope this helps and remember you don't have to buy a new horn.

Dennis

Sorry... I can't draw a comparison between the Mirafone and the Allora. But.....I have an Allora 191 in the stable now that I've been putting through it's paces for the last couple of weeks. This horn was quite a bit sharp and it is speculated that since it's a Chinese copy of a Mirafone 191, the Asians may have patterned the copy from a Mirafone 191 that was procured from the European market. I changed the main tuning slide to one that was manufactured by Mirafone to convert their European horns for the US market. The Chinese horn is such an accurate copy that the Mirafone slide worked with only very minor modifications.

A previous poster was on target about the large bore being a job to fill out but I've been playing a St. Pete 202 (.840" bore) so it wasn't much of a challenge for me. I think the Allora 191 might well be a very good bargain in terms of what the Mirafone 191 costs. The Allora 191 is a very resonant tuba. It's a good handling tuba. Even though I have not actually played the Mirafone version, I can't imagine it being $6,000 better!

I compared an example of each during a visit to Brasswind a couple of years ago. I cannot say whether each of these are representative of their breeds, and my comments apply only to the specific examples. I'm also not taking the vast difference in price into account.

That said, the Allora was not on the same planet as the Miraphone. The Holton has been doing me good. I used to feel like I could never get enough air into a 191, but on that occasion I didn't feel like that was a problem. The 191 was colorful and resonant, and spoke easily with good response. The Allora lacked the color, resonance, and response. It wasn't just me; I brought my musician niece and asked her opinion, too. The difference was obvious to both of us on the first note.

Roger suggested that he would have liked to try different mouthpieces with me, and I would never discount Roger's advice. But he wasn't in the room and I didn't seek him out since I was just kicking tires, and got the results I got with my PT-48, which is normally a competent mouthpiece for a big tuba.

Rick "suspecting the Allora was a dud" Denney

If the price point is an issue (why would anyone assume otherwise!) - those VMI horns in the WWBW catalogue seem to have gotten a pretty solid vote of confidence. I know several went in a flurry a short time ago. I suppose they don't have the bore of the 191, but it sounded like those guys got a good value.

I will preface this with the statement that most of my tuba playing is for fun, although I do play for money when I can.

I have tried the Mirafone, Allora, and the Custom model of the 191. I bought the Allora based on price. To me, it was very close to the Mirafone as far as overall playing characteristics. I will admit that I would like the stronger metal used in the Mirafone construction, but I do not treat my horn like the average school studentdoes with an instrument of which they did not pay.

It does play a little sharp, and I have to be careful when pulling the fourth valve slides (yes, two of them). The bracing on the fourth slide is a little weak on my horn.

The horn came with a PT 48 clone, but I choose to use a Mar.1 for a darker sound.

If I had to advise someone, I would tell them to be very careful and make sure that you liked the example of the horn you are considering. I believe that the Mirafone would be a more consistent, but you can find a good example of the Allora if you look carefully.

Tom Mason

hey thanks for the advice guys.

Regarding "filling up a bore," remember that after the air transitions the throat and backbore of the mouthpiece and the receiver and beginning of the leadpipe, all tubas expand pretty quickly by comparison to the diameter of the throat of the mouthpiece, and the characteristic of the horn changes from the application of Bernoulli's principle of getting the airflow to get the embouchure to buzz, to the application of static wave theory (rarefaction nodes and compression anti-nodes) in getting the resonance and tone of notes.

Instead of just bore, have you compared the diameter of the receiver end of the leadpipes on the different tubas as well? I have played several 186's, and the newer ones have a slightly larger diameter leadpipe at the receiver end than mine does, and I find it more difficult to "fill up" a newer 186, while my old one is just fine.

I forget who commented first about different leadpipe tapers and geometry, but old posts on this issue, both on 186's and on Gronitz tubas, is what got me to checking mine, and being pleasantly surprised at finding I have a smaller one, which I prefer. Also check the 1291/1292 discussion threads in this regard. Finally, Dan Oberloh also comments about having tried different leadpipe tapers to get the right one to match the Martin he restored and posted pictures of on his website.

I believe that the famous quote is "a more expensive instrument is cheaper in the long run".... With that said... What is wrong with finding a used Mirafone in your price range