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I just noticed a BBb Conn tuba on ebay,probably made by Olds,is also proclaiming a build date of 1958.Just about every 2j I've seen,including the one I used to own,was also dated 1958.I think this has come up before,but apparently when you put in the serial numbers from these horns in the Conn database,they always correlate with Conns of 1958.I'm guessing these #'s are really Olds #'s and not Conn.Whatdaya think?If we plugged these in the Olds database(if there even is one) would we get the real dates?

http://rouses.net/trumpet/oldser3.htm

http://www.google.com" target="_blank is an amazing place.

Dunno.

I've never given any thought to there being a distinct connection between Olds/Reynolds and Conn instruments other that the fact that these companies seemed to share and swap engineers frequently. Many of the parts from the 50's and 60's may have been made by one company and purchased for use by one of the others. Those bells with the connector band between the stack and the flare were especially interesting. I've never had the opportunity to see if the Olds/Reynolds stack and flare would interchange with the Conns but it may have been a way to save a lot of transportation and engraving costs in the manufacturing cycle.

The being said, I don't think I ever recall seeing and Olds 0-099 with the connector band on the bell flare. Been wrong before.... and may be again someday.

Looks just like the Olds under your "Interesting Stuff' Section, Tuba Tinker...

J.c.

Mike, if you search back through the old posts there is considerable anecdotal evidence and also enough similarities between the horns to make a case that these Conn horns were engineered, if not built by, Olds. Conn may not have had the equipment or expertise to make mid-size front-valve tubas during that period, so it would not be much of a stretch to outsource with friends/colleagues.

Eric

The serial numbers used for dating are on the valveset, which may sit around for a bit before the instrument is actually manufactured and shipped.

I had a Holton helicon that, according to the serial number, was made in Chicago in 1918, but a visit to Elkhorn and company records indicated that it left Elkhorn on the train in February, 1919.

Whether the 2J valvesets were made by Conn or Olds, there was apparently a large run of them made at some time. If the Conn serial number list would place them at 1958, the correlating numbers from Olds would place them as 1969-70 production. That is more likely, as Conn, Elkhart production would have neeeded more help then than in the late 1950's. I would guess that a whole boatload of 2J's were jointly produced around 1969-70.

I agree with Lee on this one. Definitely late 60's-early 70's Olds serial numbers. Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27842

I refuse to date Olds tubas anymore...they just won't give it up, even after 3 or 4 very expensive dinners.

Yamahas are much more...shall we say..."user-friendly"?

J.c. Sherman wrote:Looks just like the Olds under your "Interesting Stuff' Section, Tuba Tinker... J.c.

I checked my database. That little one is a Reynolds 'Contempora'... serial number 781346. It's living in northern Ohio now.

I believe that vintage/model reynolds was also really an Olds.That band,in my experience is used to reinforce a severely torn section of bell after repair.I think...

MikeMason wrote:I believe that vintage/model reynolds was also really an Olds.That band,in my experience is used to reinforce a severely torn section of bell after repair.I think...

If you are speaking of the bands that attach the stack to the bell flare in the two horns in the picture that I posted... that's the way they left the factory.

Some of the Conn 11/12J's have this band also. Kinda ugly but apparently served a purpose (anti-ring?).

I'd always thought that was the point of attachment of the final bell flare to the stack; not sexy but certainly cheaper than dovetailing the metal and cleaning up the whole attachment point.

eupher61 wrote:I'd always thought that was the point of attachment of the final bell flare to the stack; not sexy but certainly cheaper than dovetailing the metal and cleaning up the whole attachment point.

I think you are correct. I have also seen quite a few bell-front horns built that way... including King, Mirafone, and others I can't name at the moment.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I refuse to date Olds tubas anymore...they just won't give it up, even after 3 or 4 very expensive dinners.

Yamahas are much more...shall we say..."user-friendly"?

Well, see, the problem is that you're treating them like prostitutes, assuming that they have a price. Maybe they just need to love you first, and you're not loveable enough what with that attitude you've got towards them.

Now, me, I'd date an Olds if it was good looking enough.....

MA

MaryAnn wrote:

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I refuse to date Olds tubas anymore...they just won't give it up, even after 3 or 4 very expensive dinners.

Yamahas are much more...shall we say..."user-friendly"?

Well, see, the problem is that you're treating them like prostitutes, assuming that they have a price. Maybe they just need to love you first, and you're not loveable enough what with that attitude you've got towards them.

Now, me, I'd date an Olds if it was good looking enough.....

MA

Awww, shucks... I didn't know you cared...

Well, that IS you in the avatar, right? He's certainly cute enough to date.

MA

MaryAnn wrote:Well, that IS you in the avatar, right? He's certainly cute enough to date.

MA

Actually, 'he's' a she. I didn't think you went that way, but, hey- what ever pops your toatser, sweetie...

Allright, gals and guys, back to the subject!
I have further evidence of the Conn-Olds connection, right here in my shop.

I received two Conn 4J's (huh?? - really) for repair, from a local school. The serial numbers are in that same 1969-70 timeframe, too. One is lacquered and has a ring on the bell where the flare joins the bell throat, the other is silver-plated and does not have a ring. From the same school, there is also a 5J. With all three on the bench simultaneously, it is immediately apparent that the two 4J BBb's are basically Olds tubas, built with Conn braces, and engraved with the same engraving as the 2J CC that Mike Mason used to have. The valveset is definitely Olds, with a different bore from that of a Conn. The bodies of the small Conn and small Olds tubas are so close that many parts are interchangeable. Reynolds was mentioned in this thread, too. This is very likely, as F.A. Reynolds was brought out of retirement to assist at F.E. Olds, so there are many similarities. And, the new Kanstul 3/4 tubas are very similar in size to the old Conn/Olds tubas, although they are a bit better-made and more advanced. I'm sure that it is just coincidence that Zigmant Kanstul apprenticed with F. A. Reynolds at the F.E. Olds plant.

Why oh why did I ever sell that beauty... Someone find me an smilie of kicking oneself in the ***...