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Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Pop Korn » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:24 pm

Do any of you experts out there know which early jazz recordings featuring tubas as opposed to string basses? Many seem to have onnly the odd number with a tuba - even King Oliver etc.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Rick Denney » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:01 pm

Pop Korn wrote:Do any of you experts out there know which early jazz recordings featuring tubas as opposed to string basses? Many seem to have onnly the odd number with a tuba - even King Oliver etc.


What do you mean by early? The Dukes of Dixieland, in their original configuration with the Assunto brothers, used tuba for most of their recorded tracks. But that was 50's, which is probably not early enough.

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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby eupher61 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:59 pm

The Hot 7 recordings have tuba, the Hot 5s do not. A lot of Jelly Roll Morton sides used tuba, not all. The earliest Ellington sides did, as did Bennie Moten.

search here just enter tuba...you'll get lots of hits and many have recordings on the site.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Scooby Tuba » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:24 pm

Trivia!

What great thing do the following have in common?:

1. Elmer Schoebel and his Friars Society Orchestra

2. Isham Jones and His Rainbo Orchestra

3. Jean Goldkette and his Orchestra

4. Ted Weems and his Orchestra

5. Isham Jones and his Orchestra

And can easily be confirmed, too!
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby J.Harris » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:42 pm

I did a research paper on the whole tuba/string bass thing in early jazz. There is a web site called "The Red Hot Jazz Archives" that contains a wealth of recordings and documents the players as well if that info is available. It seems that the tuba had certain advantages over the string bass in relation to early recording technology which may give us a somewhat skewed perspective if we try to ascertain the tuba's prevalence in live performance. The popularity of the tuba seemed to decline rapidly due to two factors: 1.) a shift in jazz from a two-beat (two-step) feel to an emphasis on four-beat styles (ie... the walking bass line) and 2.) The advent of acoustic-electric recording devices (microphones) which enabled recordists to better capture the string bass sound. Many jazz tubists of the day were often talented upright players as well. Some even performed on the bass sax. Hope this is helpful.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Mojo workin' » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:10 pm

sides


mmmmm sides......mashed potatos, corn, baked beans. This thread is making me hungry.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby scottw » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:57 pm

J.Harris wrote:I did a research paper on the whole tuba/string bass thing in early jazz. There is a web site called "The Red Hot Jazz Archives" that contains a wealth of recordings and documents the players as well if that info is available.

The actual URL is: http://www.redhotjazz.com/
Interesting stuff.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby eupher61 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:38 pm

eupher61 wrote:The Hot 7 recordings have tuba, the Hot 5s do not. A lot of Jelly Roll Morton sides used tuba, not all. The earliest Ellington sides did, as did Bennie Moten.

search here just enter tuba...you'll get lots of hits and many have recordings on the site.


the "search here" links to the Red Hot Jazz Archive page, btw.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby TubaNero » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:51 am

Pop Korn wrote:Do any of you experts out there know which early jazz recordings featuring tubas as opposed to string basses? Many seem to have only the odd number with a tuba - even King Oliver etc.


I made three CDs of dixieland tuba-solos for my own amusement:
1) c. 1920-1950s,
2) middle-period solos (c. 1960-1970s), and
3) modern solos (1980's to today).

Some of the early tuba-soloists and bands were (many of which can be heard at www.redhotjazz.com):
“Weird Blues”, Hayes Alvis (Jabbo Smith’s Rhythm Aces)
“Sau Sha Stomp”, Lawson Buford (Jabbo Smith’s Rhythm Aces)
“Panama”, ‘Chink’ Martin Abraham (Johnnie Miller’s New Orleans Frolickers)
“Candy Lips”, Cyrus St. Clair (Clarence Williams and His Orchestra)
“Bass Ale Blues”, Joe Tarto (The Hottentots)
“Do Shuffle”, Clinton Walker (Fess Williams and his Royal Flush Orchestra)
“When Yuba Plays the Rhumba on the Tuba”, Joe ‘Country’ Washburne (Spike Jones and his Other Orchestra)
“Big Bass Horn Blues”, Phil Stephens (Pete Daily’s Dixieland Band)

The best of these may have been Clinton Walker, of whom almost nothing is known, but Cyrus St. Clair, Joe Tarto, and Country Wasburne are giants in early-jazz tuba.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Toad Away » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:54 pm

Scooby Tuba wrote:Trivia!

What great thing do the following have in common?:

1. Elmer Schoebel and his Friars Society Orchestra

2. Isham Jones and His Rainbo Orchestra

3. Jean Goldkette and his Orchestra

4. Ted Weems and his Orchestra

5. Isham Jones and his Orchestra

And can easily be confirmed, too!

___________________________________________
I'll take a stab at it:

John Kuhn
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Scooby Tuba » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:34 pm

Toad Away wrote:I'll take a stab at it:

John Kuhn


Yep...
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby bloke » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:54 pm

How early are we talkin'...

...a half an hour, or more like 45 minutes?

bloke "usually on time"
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Scooby Tuba » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:25 pm

bloke wrote:How early are we talkin'...

...a half an hour, or more like 45 minutes?

bloke "usually on time"


Half the job is being on time, the other half is being in time...

|bum, bum, bum, bum, | bum, bum, bum, ba, dum, bum|
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby tuben » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:37 pm

Now, this is something I TRULY love!

Ted Weems - Piccolo Pete http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDaPfJOXr-E&NR=1

Ted Weems - Good Morning, Good Evening, Good Night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsoyZDTDizU

Great tuba licks in each.... It is simply impossible to be unhappy and listen to this music!

RC
(who would give his right you-know-what to be able to play dixieland and/or early jass again)
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Donn » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:56 am

Pop Korn wrote:Do any of you experts out there know which early jazz recordings featuring tubas as opposed to string basses? Many seem to have onnly the odd number with a tuba - even King Oliver etc.


The preceding posts have your solid leads to the good stuff, but I just wanted to mention Walter Page in early Kansas City Blue Devils. I hope I'm getting that right, I heard this stuff many years ago and it just stuck in my head that this would be some of the best. He went on to be much more well known as a string bass player. I don't specifically recall anything about tuba solos, but then I always thought of tuba solos as kind of like a novelty act, I'm talking about the bass line.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Paul Scott » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:16 am

That's Country Washburne on the Ted Weems sides-he also arranged for the band. He was one of the very best of that era and later played for Spike Jones. I had heard a story that he rarely left the West Coast in later years because he disliked air travel.

Harry Barth was another great tubist (and bass player) of the 20's and can be heard on many early Ted Lewis records.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby eupher61 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:04 pm

Walter Page was a pioneer in brass bass playing. You can sort of hear the evolution of tuba to string bass playing in the series of recordings of the Blue Devils, how his tuba playing changed over the course of a year or so. Outstanding.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Pop Korn » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:23 am

Many thanks. Specially for those who suggested redhotjazz.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby Toad Away » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:00 am

Interesting shop in California where I have found CDs by
Ted Weems, Isham Jones, and other great bands.

The website is:
http://www.worldsrecords.com

Lotsa good stuff there.
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Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Postby scottw » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:43 am

Were any of you as fascinated with the work of Gene Mayl as I was, back in the '50's? He led a group called the "Dixieland Rhythm Kings" and recorded several albums on Riverside Records jazz series. This guy could flat out play tuba [and string bass], kicking in beautifully conceived bass solos and lines. I don't know if he is still alive, but I did hear awhile back that he was only playing bass at the time. My favorite album of his--which I literally played to death!--was "DRK in Hi-Fi." Man, would I love to get a replacement of that album!
Bob Hodes played cornet, Charlie Sonnanstine,trombone,Joe Darrensbourg, clarinet, Robin Weatterau, piano,and Jack Vastine, banjo. This was quite a group of players. 8)
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