Early Jazz Tubists

The bulk of the musical talk
User avatar
Rick Denney
Resident Genius
Posts: 6650
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:18 am
Contact:

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Rick Denney »

Pop Korn wrote:Do any of you experts out there know which early jazz recordings featuring tubas as opposed to string basses? Many seem to have onnly the odd number with a tuba - even King Oliver etc.
What do you mean by early? The Dukes of Dixieland, in their original configuration with the Assunto brothers, used tuba for most of their recorded tracks. But that was 50's, which is probably not early enough.

Rick "throwing out a data point" Denney
eupher61
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by eupher61 »

The Hot 7 recordings have tuba, the Hot 5s do not. A lot of Jelly Roll Morton sides used tuba, not all. The earliest Ellington sides did, as did Bennie Moten.

search here just enter tuba...you'll get lots of hits and many have recordings on the site.
J.Harris
bugler
bugler
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Northeast Florida

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by J.Harris »

I did a research paper on the whole tuba/string bass thing in early jazz. There is a web site called "The Red Hot Jazz Archives" that contains a wealth of recordings and documents the players as well if that info is available. It seems that the tuba had certain advantages over the string bass in relation to early recording technology which may give us a somewhat skewed perspective if we try to ascertain the tuba's prevalence in live performance. The popularity of the tuba seemed to decline rapidly due to two factors: 1.) a shift in jazz from a two-beat (two-step) feel to an emphasis on four-beat styles (ie... the walking bass line) and 2.) The advent of acoustic-electric recording devices (microphones) which enabled recordists to better capture the string bass sound. Many jazz tubists of the day were often talented upright players as well. Some even performed on the bass sax. Hope this is helpful.
Jason C. Harris
User avatar
Mojo workin'
4 valves
4 valves
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:44 pm
Location: made of teflon, behind the bull's eye

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Mojo workin' »

sides
mmmmm sides......mashed potatos, corn, baked beans. This thread is making me hungry.
scottw
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:39 am
Location: South Jersey

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by scottw »

J.Harris wrote:I did a research paper on the whole tuba/string bass thing in early jazz. There is a web site called "The Red Hot Jazz Archives" that contains a wealth of recordings and documents the players as well if that info is available.
The actual URL is: http://www.redhotjazz.com/" target="_blank
Interesting stuff.
Bearin' up!
eupher61
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by eupher61 »

eupher61 wrote:The Hot 7 recordings have tuba, the Hot 5s do not. A lot of Jelly Roll Morton sides used tuba, not all. The earliest Ellington sides did, as did Bennie Moten.

search here just enter tuba...you'll get lots of hits and many have recordings on the site.
the "search here" links to the Red Hot Jazz Archive page, btw.
User avatar
TubaNero
lurker
lurker
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:06 am

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by TubaNero »

Pop Korn wrote:Do any of you experts out there know which early jazz recordings featuring tubas as opposed to string basses? Many seem to have only the odd number with a tuba - even King Oliver etc.
I made three CDs of dixieland tuba-solos for my own amusement:
1) c. 1920-1950s,
2) middle-period solos (c. 1960-1970s), and
3) modern solos (1980's to today).

Some of the early tuba-soloists and bands were (many of which can be heard at http://www.redhotjazz.com" target="_blank):
“Weird Blues”, Hayes Alvis (Jabbo Smith’s Rhythm Aces)
“Sau Sha Stomp”, Lawson Buford (Jabbo Smith’s Rhythm Aces)
“Panama”, ‘Chink’ Martin Abraham (Johnnie Miller’s New Orleans Frolickers)
“Candy Lips”, Cyrus St. Clair (Clarence Williams and His Orchestra)
“Bass Ale Blues”, Joe Tarto (The Hottentots)
“Do Shuffle”, Clinton Walker (Fess Williams and his Royal Flush Orchestra)
“When Yuba Plays the Rhumba on the Tuba”, Joe ‘Country’ Washburne (Spike Jones and his Other Orchestra)
“Big Bass Horn Blues”, Phil Stephens (Pete Daily’s Dixieland Band)

The best of these may have been Clinton Walker, of whom almost nothing is known, but Cyrus St. Clair, Joe Tarto, and Country Wasburne are giants in early-jazz tuba.
User avatar
Toad Away
bugler
bugler
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Toad Away »

Scooby Tuba wrote:Trivia!

What great thing do the following have in common?:

1. Elmer Schoebel and his Friars Society Orchestra

2. Isham Jones and His Rainbo Orchestra

3. Jean Goldkette and his Orchestra

4. Ted Weems and his Orchestra

5. Isham Jones and his Orchestra

And can easily be confirmed, too!
___________________________________________
I'll take a stab at it:

John Kuhn
___________________________________
___________________________________
Image
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Donn »

Pop Korn wrote:Do any of you experts out there know which early jazz recordings featuring tubas as opposed to string basses? Many seem to have onnly the odd number with a tuba - even King Oliver etc.
The preceding posts have your solid leads to the good stuff, but I just wanted to mention Walter Page in early Kansas City Blue Devils. I hope I'm getting that right, I heard this stuff many years ago and it just stuck in my head that this would be some of the best. He went on to be much more well known as a string bass player. I don't specifically recall anything about tuba solos, but then I always thought of tuba solos as kind of like a novelty act, I'm talking about the bass line.
User avatar
Paul Scott
pro musician
pro musician
Posts: 447
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:11 am

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Paul Scott »

That's Country Washburne on the Ted Weems sides-he also arranged for the band. He was one of the very best of that era and later played for Spike Jones. I had heard a story that he rarely left the West Coast in later years because he disliked air travel.

Harry Barth was another great tubist (and bass player) of the 20's and can be heard on many early Ted Lewis records.
Adjunct Tuba Professor
William Paterson University
Wayne, NJ
eupher61
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by eupher61 »

Walter Page was a pioneer in brass bass playing. You can sort of hear the evolution of tuba to string bass playing in the series of recordings of the Blue Devils, how his tuba playing changed over the course of a year or so. Outstanding.
User avatar
Toad Away
bugler
bugler
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Toad Away »

Interesting shop in California where I have found CDs by
Ted Weems, Isham Jones, and other great bands.

The website is:
http://www.worldsrecords.com

Lotsa good stuff there.
___________________________________
___________________________________
Image
scottw
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:39 am
Location: South Jersey

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by scottw »

Were any of you as fascinated with the work of Gene Mayl as I was, back in the '50's? He led a group called the "Dixieland Rhythm Kings" and recorded several albums on Riverside Records jazz series. This guy could flat out play tuba [and string bass], kicking in beautifully conceived bass solos and lines. I don't know if he is still alive, but I did hear awhile back that he was only playing bass at the time. My favorite album of his--which I literally played to death!--was "DRK in Hi-Fi." Man, would I love to get a replacement of that album!
Bob Hodes played cornet, Charlie Sonnanstine,trombone,Joe Darrensbourg, clarinet, Robin Weatterau, piano,and Jack Vastine, banjo. This was quite a group of players. 8)
Bearin' up!
User avatar
Toad Away
bugler
bugler
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Toad Away »

Thanks Scott,
I just ordered The New Low Down from worldsrecords.com.
Amazon also has this CD.

Image
___________________________________
___________________________________
Image
eupher61
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 2790
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:37 pm

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by eupher61 »

scottw
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:39 am
Location: South Jersey

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by scottw »

Toad Away wrote:Thanks Scott,
I just ordered The New Low Down from worldsrecords.com.
Amazon also has this CD.

Image
I listened to the 30 second clips. Gene Mayl plays only bass nowadays ---and still sounds great at that!--- but plays no tuba anymore.
Bearin' up!
User avatar
Toad Away
bugler
bugler
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: San Antonio

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by Toad Away »

scottw wrote:I listened to the 30 second clips. Gene Mayl plays only bass nowadays ---and still sounds great at that!--- but plays no tuba anymore.
Yes, but on this 1965 recording he plays some fine tuba.
___________________________________
___________________________________
Image
scottw
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1519
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:39 am
Location: South Jersey

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by scottw »

Toad Away wrote:
scottw wrote:I listened to the 30 second clips. Gene Mayl plays only bass nowadays ---and still sounds great at that!--- but plays no tuba anymore.
Yes, but on this 1965 recording he plays some fine tuba.
If you ever find "Dixieland Rhythm Kings in Hi-Fi", get it and enjoy it--then send me a copy! lol 8)
Bearin' up!
KentEshelman
bugler
bugler
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Waco, Texas

Re: Early Jazz Tubists

Post by KentEshelman »

There's a lot of exposed tuba playing on recordings from the late 1920s by Tiny Parham. I'm looking at some liner notes that say the tubist was Quinn Wilson, who I believe also made recordings in Jelly Roll Morton's band.

Kent Eshelman
Post Reply