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What MSU are you going to since many MSU exist?

Sorry don't have too much time to rattle a whole lot off but one thing Dr. Brian Bowman stressed when I was in his masterclass was singing it while fingering it. THis goes for any type of tonguing, even single. As usual, take it from a slower pace (singing) until it is solid then do the same and pick up the pace. You can also try solidifying the singing with it then playing it at that pace...then improve from there. If youre getting the speed of your fingers fast enough and your tongue fast enough thats great, you just need to match the two, and singing should hopefully do this. I know I have this problem too just haven't found the time to completely overcome it yet.


Good Luck,


Kev

The key is too ssssslllloooowww it down and gradually bring up the tempo. I know it's simple, but its the most effective way. (for me, anyways) Also, If you own the Arbans book take a look at those double tonguing exercises. They are great. because they start really simple and then gradually get much more complex. Hope this helps!

The_Coach wrote: . . . I've tried slowing it down, but when that happens, I really can't tell the difference between single tonguing and double tonguing as far as the sound goes. I'm sure there is a difference, but I tend to lose confidence when it simply sounds like muddy single tonguing . . .

Good, if you can't tell the difference between single and double tongueing when you're playing it slowly, that's what you want. They should both sound the same. OTOH, if it sounds muddy, there is a problem. Here are a few tips that really helped me: 1) AIR. Lots and lots of AIR. Without great air support, double tongueing quickly really doesn't work out as well as it should. 2) Singing is great. Coordinate the start of each note with the proper fingering being down. That's the same thing you'll be doing on the horn eventually. Be metronomic about it, that is key as well. 3) Practice where you can really hear what is coming out of your bell. Aim your bell at the wall of your practice room. Tape yourself. For me, if I can hear what is coming out of my bell well, my double tongueing is pretty clean. If I can't hear the results, my double tongueing isn't as clean as it could be (I suspect).
Good luck!

Another thought on this one . . . are you taking private lessons? If not, you should. A good teacher can help your progress dramatically in every respect, hopefully bypassing a lot of frustration you'd have teaching yourself. How is the double tongueing progressing, anyway?

i'll second the air comment. the more air you have behind the horn, the more comfortable double tonguing will become. i know it's been said before but i'll say it again. while you're driving/walking around/watching tv/etc. silently double tongue and practice your fingerings. you'd be surprised the work you can achieve while watching the latest episode of 'The Office'. (or w/e your vice is) another thing that has helped me is to study the passage as a woodwind player would. in H.S. i took a couple lessons with a clarinetest (is that what we call them?) and he taught me a couple of techniques to overcome your problem. he would have me take a consecutive 16th note passage and put emphasis on different parts of the beat. for example, play the first note of every grouping three times the value and using the next beat (if using 1e&a counting this is the e of the beat or 2nd 16th. if using the 1-ti-te-ta system this would be the ti) like a pickup, thus altering each grouping into three counts. (if my math is right) After working at this you can start putting the emphasis on different portions of the beat. i hope this makes sense and helps. if you want any clarification just shoot me a PM. cheers.

-casey

There's quite a bit of good advice here.

Something to note:

If you can't tell the difference sound-wise between single and double, then GREAT! Unless of course it all sounds muddy. In which cause you may need to re-think how you articulate. (Assuming this means you have muddy single and double).

Another thing that helps is to realize that sometimes the Ku of the Tu-Ku isn't as strong as the forward moving TU tongue. So What helped me a lot was to practice single tonguing with only the backtongue or the Ku. Not too much so you mess up anything else, but enough to help build muscle strength. Often the Tu and the fingers line up, but the Ku is much slower to response. So building the strength along with other mentioned techniques can help.

I am also a MSU (michigan state) tuba player. Not in the marching band however...

There was a query about double tonguing not too long ago, in which the point was made about the use of air.

For coordination of tongue and fingers, once again I recommend starting with the last few notes of the passage, even just two notes if that is what works. Get those two notes in tempo, perfectly, then back up another two notes, so that now you are doing four notes. Get those absolutely perfect and comfortable, then back up another two notes. You'll be surprised what you can learn in a very short time using this methodology. It is much, much faster than trying to learn a passage from front-to-back, because in this latter way, you are always approaching what you can't do; with the former way, you are approaching what you can already do.

It works.

MA