TubeNet

Hello all,

I've been having this problem for about a year or so, I've tried several different approaches to fix the problem, I just find myself starting around the Bb below the staff to Ab unusually difficult to play with a good tone and almost impossible to play softly. I think that I have a shift from around B natural to low G. I was seeing if there are any specific exercises that could help fix this problem. Thanks!

Do you mean the Bb three spaces below the staff? TubeNetters will argue about whether you should shift at all for your low range; but I think we would all agree that it should be several steps below that Bb before you shift.

Is this on your CC? If so, try slurring down slowly from C two ledger lines below the staff. C B Bb; B Bb A; Bb A Ab; A Ab G; Ab G Gb; G Gb F. Do not shift. Don't move your embrochure at all. Breath through your nose so that you don't have to move.

And, as Dale would ask: What does your teacher say?

Yes, it's on my CC, doing that slurring exercise does help. I should clarify that my shift does not occur until low G.

Do you actually shift (move the mouthpiece up or down on your face) or do you pivot (change angle)?

I ask that because, low G seems like a very high spot to shift, but a common place where some pivoting might be going on. I shift only sometimes for D (whole step above pedal C) and lower.

Can you start at low F with the shifted chops and ascend as high as you can play. Just play scales up and back down.

I used to have a much more pronounced shift. One summer, I was fortunate enough to study with Gil Long. He had me figure out what works in the low register and keep the chops the same all the way up.


Hope this helps,

Christian

Also among the fixes, check your tuba to make sure there are no loose slides, deteriorated or "unclean" solder joints or braces joints, no gunk buildup anywhere in the tuba, and no worn valves. All these can create circumstances where the antinodes dissipate and prevent good solid tone on anywhere from one note to a range of notes. I had a dead bottom line Gb for awhile until my tech resoldered the leadpipe joint into the valve block and adopted a different oiling technique for the second valve to make sure nothing dissipated, as it is slightly worn after 37 years, to remedy some dissipation.

What kind of horn and mouthpiece do you use? I'm not advocating a mouthpiece change (yet?) but make sure your fundamentals are in order to produce a good deep buzz into the mouthpiece.

Next question: you talk about BBb to AAb, or possibly CC down to GG as being difficult. How about below that, with GGb, FF, Enat, Eb (on a 4-valve horn or as a false pedal on a 3-valve horn) D (2+3+4 on a 4-valve) and possibly Db if you can get there? Do they seem to come back, just not quite so loud, or do they completely fall away in both tone and volume?

How the notes below your trouble range react can help diagnose whether your situation is embouchure, mouthpiece, tuba, or some combination of all the above.

Eric,

Have you changed your rig in that time? Made any tweaks to your horn or changed mouthpieces? Also, does Sande have you working the Snedecor? Rochut down 2 octaves? Do you have the same problem on other horns like the Willson?

AFA exercises, I would try to start on low GG and play upward, making absolutely sure you don't shift. Play up as far as you can with a good tone. Then start on G at the bottom of the staff and go down, again making sure you don't shift, and play as far down as you can with a good sound. The objective is to try to isolate where the shift has to happen. If you can give yourself a 4th or 5th range of being able to play it either way with a good sound, then you should be able to smooth it out.

iiipopes wrote: . . . check your tuba to make sure there are no loose slides, deteriorated or "unclean" solder joints or braces joints, no gunk buildup anywhere in the tuba, and no worn valves. . .

I would start by ensuring there are no mechanical problems with the horn. Have you tried the same range on several different CC tubas? If the problem persists, then I think the horn is not a barrier.

Second, have you worked on your AIR support enough to know that that isn't the problem?
Do you hear the notes in your head?
Are you trying to "force"/"manhandle" the notes out by pushing air through the horn? This can be particularly counterproductive for some horns.
As far as exercises, I believe buzzing on the mouthpiece is probably one of your best bets, if the horn is functioning properly and all of the above questions check out. I've seen great results with my students from copying a vocal exercise "siren." Begin by buzzing in a comfortable range and buzz smoothly (not trying to hit any particular individual pitches) as high as you can go and back down to the starting pitch in one breath. Also, for low range, start in the same comfortable range and then buzz smoothly down as far as you can go and back to the original pitch in one breath. Concentrate on good air support and expanding your range gradually this way.
Probably, most importantly, ask your private teacher. I'm sure s/he can and will help you overcome this minor obstacle. Good luck!!

Just a quick check - which lip is doing the work down there? Your description leads me to believe that it is the lower lip and this would be the problem. If the sound is very "tight" and brittle sounding I would say that this is the first thing to examine. If the lower lip is doing the vibrating this will kill resonance and low register.

I probably see 9 out of 10 young players come through here with this upside down embouchure. Apparently few people are teaching proper embouchure or checking this any more. I would call it an epidemic

Just my observations.

Roger

Indeed. I believe part of the problem is not just laxity or negligent teaching, but the failure to properly fit a mouthpiece to a player's embouchure so that it rests in the preferred position on the embouchure. Mouthpieces in general, just like trumpet bores, trombone bores, and tuba bores, are larger than generations ago.

"Original" Helleberg mouthpieces are only about 1 1/4 inches across. Now, 1.28 is almost considered "small," with 1.30 being the norm, and larger being advocated by some folks.

This, combined with a wide rim, will cause the mouthpiece to ride up the chin and cause stress on the upper lip having to do more of the work than it should, and prevent the lower lip from vibrating freely in sync with the upper, resulting in thin tone.

I know. I've been there. I had to have the wide rim on my Curry 128D turned down to Mt Vernon Bach 18 profile so it would sit properly on my embouchure and not ride up. I've seen the same thing with other tuba players I've played with in community bands.

So what do they do? Instead of working on proper technique and seeking advice on a proper fit, they purchase an even larger mouthpiece and get worse instead of better.

Along the lines of this topic...

I just got a new private student who has no background in private lessons. He started out on euphonium 4 or 5 years ago and switched to tuba almost 2 years ago. At times he has a good middle and upper register and every once and a while he has some good low notes (I have only taught him 2 lessons so far).

I have worked on getting him to relax more, open up and blow more air without much success. He told me he feels the notes come out / sound better when he "muscles" the notes by applying more force to the mouthpiece. I have addressed the issue that you don't want to "muscle" notes, rather he should let the air do most of the work.

I have given him a variety of exercises (the Arnold Jacobs' studies from the Hal Leonard Andvanced Method Book) in addition to long tones and beginning Arban's exercises.

What other advice / exercises should I offer him?

Thanks in advance!

TMB

If you ask a student to open his jaw, and it doesn't change the way the student is sounding, then look at the lower lip vibrating instead of the upper. This is the big "tell" on this. I inherited 12 studetns from another teacher one year and all of them were doing this. When I would ask them to relax and open the jaw, the sound stayed basically the same. Once I put a visualizer on them, everything became very apparent.

Try it yourself - buzzing the lower lip. You'll see how complicated it makes the air stream and how little sound flexibility it gives you.

Okay, I'm done now.

Roger