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Do they make Eb Tubas with just 3 valves. I figured you need at least 4 because of how high it's pitched, but I have no idea, I just play C and Bb horns. Thanks, Ben.

Benjamin wrote:Do they make Eb Tubas with just 3 valves

I have two like that, but they're old. It isn't as common today, because Eb tubas aren't as common. Particularly, rarely purchased by school music departments, to pick one good example of a buyer that likes to save money on frills like a 4th valve. Tuba parts for band used to make accommodations for the Eb tuba, a separate part or optional notes that avoided the low range below A. I doubt anyone does that today.

But where Eb tubas are built to that kind of price point, they still have 3 valves: e.g., Amati AEB 211.

most pro level Eb tubas will have 4 valves, I believe the Norwegian Star from Miraphone has a 5 valve option. Student models may have 3 valves.
the 4th valve, as you probably know, enables the instrument to play a complete chromatic scale from B to Eb

There are a lot of guys out there getting all kinds of mileage out of older 3-banger Eefers - and they're quite happy.

Personally I find that lipping and false tones are tougher for me, so I like my 3+1. Your mileage may vary...

Three-valved Eb tubas were a very common form of tuba in the pre-60's. Most every grade school owned them because it was relatively easy to switch a kid from trumpet to Eb tuba without major changes in the way the music was read. I don't know of any new three-valved Eb tubas being made unless it's some nondescript Indian or Asian copy. There aren't very many three-valved tubas in any key being produced today. As far as the manufacturing is concern, it's probably just as easy in modern manufacturing environments to make ALL tubas with four valves as opposed to having to deal with different parts in the various assembly operations.

Old three-valve Eb's are more also more common because in the days before there were sousaphones, people had to use their good (and often only) horn both inside AND outside.

One had to have a very stout constitution to carry and play a BAT down Mainstreet.

My limited experience with older 3-valve e-flat horns is that they usually do low false tones and genuine pedal tones rather well. So you get some compensation for having only 3 valves.

Yamaha lists one in their international lists, and I know Jupiter has one as well. Weril also can get one, if memory serves. Besson listed one for the longest time, but I'll bet Schreiber doesn't make that one anymore...

But there are, as previously stated, grillions of 3-valve used instruments, some of them spectacular players.

J.c.S.

I've played a 3-valve Martin eefer that with a Wick 3 mouthpiece was just a joy to play, had great false pedals and great real pedals, and I didn't miss that 4th valve at all. The slots were wide enough that you just set pitch by buzz and go. Its only drawback was simply its size as an old small bore which kept it from having as "big" a sound as some people might like. BTW -- it had the straight in leadpipe with upright valves, with the main slide after the valve block, and not the main slide in the loop of the leadpipe like so many of the older eefers do.

OTOH, I've played another that was just a holy terror. And I'm not the only one who thinks so: generations of players before me have worn all the plating off the main slide in the leadpipe loop manipulating it trying to get this particular tuba it to intonate. Maybe one day someone will salvage the 20 inch bell off of it for a Matt-style project and get some real use out of it.

Donn wrote:

Benjamin wrote:Do they make Eb Tubas with just 3 valves

I have two like that, but they're old. It isn't as common today, because Eb tubas aren't as common. Particularly, rarely purchased by school music departments, to pick one good example of a buyer that likes to save money on frills like a 4th valve. Tuba parts for band used to make accommodations for the Eb tuba, a separate part or optional notes that avoided the low range below A. I doubt anyone does that today.

But where Eb tubas are built to that kind of price point, they still have 3 valves: e.g., Amati AEB 211.

Yes. I have one of those sitting in the front room even as we speak. And it has neatly engraved on the bell "Boston Public Schools-1974". When I got it, it was in incredibly good shape. I had it chem cleaned and Dan O. worked on the slightly misshapen bell for about 15-20 min. and it looks and plays fine.

I've seen a couple of 5th grade school girls at my school struggling with souzies and I think they would be having more fun with one of these light Eb horns but that's me. Amati makes F, CC and BBb versions of this same form factor three valve horn. I think they call the BBb version the "Baby Tuba". Would be a great tuba to take hiking if you must have a BBb.

BTW: What's the best way to learn the fingerings for Eb? I've been doing the "read and finger like trumpet playing and add three sharps" thing. Long term, would learning the fingerings and directly reading the tuba music be better?

The Big Ben wrote:BTW: What's the best way to learn the fingerings for Eb? I've been doing the "read and finger like trumpet playing and add three sharps" thing. Long term, would learning the fingerings and directly reading the tuba music be better?

Your way of reading works as an immediate solution to a shuffle from a trumpet fingered instrument to the bass part played on an Eb bass. Many of us have taken that route in a pinch even if we already knew the bass clef from piano and/or from trombone/baritone.

However your band everyday with rehearsals and section talk will become easier if you learn the bass clef properly.

I have no problems with playing the bassbone from a brass band style Eb tuba part or from a baritone saxophone part. However I ran into problems once. I could not take part in a big band tour and was replaced by a saxophonist doing the part on a (second) baritone sax. When I got back my folder, the sax player had changed all accidentals with a pen. I demanded, and got, clean parts. Both ways of reading goes with both clefs, but the part has to be consistent with it self.

The British brass band movement has solved the shuffling problem almost fully, as all parts but for the bassbone are written in treble clef. I may be a heretic, but I find that the British way of writing BBb bass parts comes out with much cleaner and more readable parts than does the stand notation for contrabass tubas due to the lesser number of ledger lines.

From other threads it might be known, that I am not the greatest fan of bass instruments with only 3 valves unless these are compensating or have good trigger/pulling options. However a tiny loaned Besson Westminster once was the musical lifebelt, when I was the leader of a small band in a poor Christian youth organisation.

There still appears to be an available pool of American made Monster Eb basses from before 1930 or so. They don’t necessarily make good starter tubas for young players, as they still are too big. I have no touch with the market of small Eb basses after Besson stopped making theirs. Only I know that Weril makes a small Eb with 3 top pistons.

We have organisations here with rather young or all female marching bands. The smallest Jupiter BBb tuba has been used in that context (sousaphones are rare outside jazz in my country). I have been told that these organisations now use a practise, which I as an arranger find odd, but which is more understandable from an ergonomic point of view: the bands use F tubas for the bass tuba parts, whereas 4 valve Eb tubas are used to get as many of the low notes as possible from the contrabass tuba parts.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

windshieldbug wrote:Old three-valve Eb's are more also more common because in the days before there were sousaphones, people had to use their good (and often only) horn both inside AND outside.

One had to have a very stout constitution to carry and play a BAT down Mainstreet.

???

yeah, this is all totally true, but two points to quibble on: Helicons were certainly around pre-souzie, and heck, it's been 110 years since the souzie was designed! I don't think there are a whole lot of any tubas around from those days.

I always feel sorry for the BBB players marching with the Besson BBb's ...takes more than a stout constitution...I'd say a few
would be even more helpful

eupher61 wrote:yeah, this is all totally true, but two points to quibble on: Helicons were certainly around pre-souzie, and heck, it's been 110 years since the souzie was designed! I don't think there are a whole lot of any tubas around from those days.

Actually, the sousaphone was developed from the helicon by J W Pepper on the request of Sousa because he wanted a bass instrument whose sound would come over the top of the band rather than off to the side. The original configuration for the sousaphone was bell up, what we now call "raincatcher." It was only later, and the request from others for forward projection of the tone that Conn developed the now conventional configuration of bell forward.

http://www.jwpepper.com/history/sousa.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

iiipopes wrote:

eupher61 wrote:yeah, this is all totally true, but two points to quibble on: Helicons were certainly around pre-souzie, and heck, it's been 110 years since the souzie was designed! I don't think there are a whole lot of any tubas around from those days.

Actually, the sousaphone was developed from the helicon by J W Pepper on the request of Sousa because he wanted a bass instrument whose sound would come over the top of the band rather than off to the side. The original configuration for the sousaphone was bell up, what we now call "raincatcher." It was only later, and the request from others for forward projection of the tone that Conn developed the now conventional configuration of bell forward.

http://www.jwpepper.com/history/sousa.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

you don't say? wow.