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Jeff Rideout of tuba world has graciously agreed to stop in Springfield on July 31st between 3 p.m. - 6 p.m. (time may change by an hour or so). He will have all models B & S Perantucci, Hirsbrunner, Nirschl, Sanders tubas & euphoniums, also Sterling Virtuoso euphoniums. If any one is interested and would like details e-mail me at Rathert2918@missouristate.edu" target="_blank" target="_blank
Daniel Rathert

da hell with emails...please post 'em here!

Bump!

Hey, look over here.

BUMP!

OK - I'll be there. See you later Dan and mysterious "un-named" Chamber Musician. I'll bring a friend, too.

btw, where?

Ok, so that was extremely informative, and FUN! Many thanks to Jeff Rideout and Dan for hooking this up, and to ahem..."Chamber Musician" for taking pictures and for playing his horn so that I would have a tone to try to emulate. (I failed, by the way).

Many of you own/have played many more horns than I have. But I'm going to give a few impressions of my experiences with some of the horns I tried today. As always, your mileage may vary.

Firstly, I found my new mouthpiece. Just when I thought I had found my perfect match in my G & W Bora, I tried some PTs, and found that a PT48 is a perfect match for me. Some of the others were better for certain registers, but I will be buying a PT48 as my new all-around mouthpiece.

I doodled on some of the F tubas Mr. Rideout brought, but as I am certain I will be buying a 4/4 or 5/4 CC tuba, I didn't spend much time with them. I'm sure some of the others who will followup after me will have some better input.

I tried a rotary Hirsbrunner, I forget which one it was. I can definitely see why so many people love them. It had a distinct voice, and was easy to play. It just didn't fit me very well.

I also tried a Nirschl WN15. Man, that thing sounded really nice. Again, it has it's own distinct voice that's hard to describe. For my taste, it seemed a tad on the stuffy side, with not as solid a high register as I want. Of course, that could very well be something that works itself out with more playing. I only spent a short afternoon with it, so who knows.

The PT20 was a solid horn, I had no complaints. But it didn't really jump out at me.

I tried the PT606 (for the few seconds that Dan let it out of his sight!). What a nice horn. Such a fat, compact, beautiful sound. If I was looking at purchasing three tubas instead of one all-around horn, the 606 would probably be my quintet/all-purpose horn. Everything slots easily, it has an easy range, and just sounds great.

But for me, no horn there came close to the PT6.

My God. I can definitely see why so many people like these. It's one of those horns that just reaches out and grabs you. I thought it sounded nice with my Bora in the receiver. Then I slapped a PT48 in, and WOW. I had never heard myself sound like that before (except maybe when playing Dr. Hodapp's York, but he's assured me that he's going to be buried in that thing, and they aren't exactly making any more of 'em!). I was simply floored by how agile such a large horn is. The high register just sings, and the low register is ridiculously easy to play. The valves are fast and smooth (even on the demo model). The intonation was amazing throughout the range. It was a little strange to hold, since I usually play a Miraphone 186, but I could definitely get used to it. I had played on a classmate's Miraphone 1291 a bit this past year, and didn't think any horn would beat it to top my list of horns. However, I have a new number one. It would take a pretty amazing horn to make me change my mind from purchasing a PT6.

Thanks again to Jeff, Dan, and the mysterious and legendary Chamber Musician!

All horns were great, but that pt-606 was just a perfect match. Well time to cut back budget wise and start saving.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the 605. Especially with a PT82 mouthpiece. It was almost enough to make me find a biergarten gig and wear lederhosen. Seriously, if I was 20 years younger and looking to play "commercial" or weekend gigs for beer money, or if I was starting from scratch for band, this is an awesome combination, just damn near perfect intonation. It makes me want to be able to sit down for an hour and compare the 605 with a Miraphone 187. The 605, being a slightly larger horn than my 186, had the slightest bit more security in low register intonation. But it also weighed noticeably more, about the same as my Besson. So with the added mass, I did need to give it a little more to get the same response as I get with my limited physique out of my 186. It had, at the same time, the response of the old Rudy BBb 17" bell that is in the MoSU stable, and the solidity of the old MW25 that is also in the stable, but with a bigger tone. One of the pictures Chamber Musician took is of the 605 and my 186 laying side by side on the floor so everyone can see the difference. Remember My 186 has the retrofit bell that is shorter in the stack than a current production BBb 186.

I played all the CC tubas. The old HB was really rich and creamy. I couldn't get anything worth a fart out of the PT-7, and that definitely says more about me than the horn. The rest of the CC's, all being in the 4/4 to 5/4 size, were about the same to my mediocre chops, although just for the ergonomics of it I leaned towards the PT-6 rotor. The difference between the rotor version and the piston version was interesting: same overall tone quality, but with the longer leadpipe, the rotor had a little softer attack, and the piston had a little more present attack. But especially after trying the Nirschl 4/4 CC, a very good, even horn, and the PT-20, a very good, compact horn, I'd also like to try one of the really good Besson 995's.

Forgive me for not talking about the F tubas. They were all fantastic, it's just that I am not worthy. I'll stick to the muddy trench bottoms.

So, no, I did not develop a case of TAS or GAS after being there today. I learned a lot, and broadened my perspective, and to be able to get real face time with such quality tubas, and more than one, hell, a dozen or so in all, just is unbelievable here in the tuba desert of southwest Missouri.

I did consider one item that I'm probably going to get just because the only limitation to my trusty Curry 128D with the modified rim is that the high range can get a little insecure. With the PT34, I was playing, of all things, the Haydn trumpet concerto, and the tessitura was as secure as a player could get. Due to my personal limitations, I could not get as good a tone down low with it, but Chamber Musician could. He must get a PT34. If he could hear what I heard on his personal instrument and that mouthpiece combination from 25 feet away, he would know what I mean with the utmost sincerity. I smiled. If the rest of the TNFJ could hear what I heard, we'd all be tempted to just lay down our tubas and quit playing as not being worthy. Ch M -- you GOTTA get a PT34!

I tried the other PT mouthpieces, about a half dozen, in my preferred cup diameter, but the ones with the smaller throats made my upper range go flat, and the others in the German series besides the PT82 were such that my limitations couldn't really utilize them to anything but a nondescript tone -- not bad, but not noticably good, either. But, your mileage WILL vary, and they are all very fine mouthpieces, indeed. These comments say more about my limitations as a player, as they are all of the highest quality, just waiting for the right player to come along, like (I'll say it again) Ch M and the PT34.

OK, what I really took away from this experience: moreso than with any other instrument, the legendary saying hold true: you do not find a tuba. The tuba finds you. I was absolutely amazed how the same tuba, even with different mouthpieces, could sound so differently as each person played it, and how each person needed a different mouthpiece/tuba combination to sound his/her optimum, and how once that "magic" combination was put together for each player, how overall superior and ironically similar at the same time each was. For Danzfat, the PT36/PT606 was his combination. For Tubaguyry, the PT48/PT6P will get him a great gig somewhere. For me, I'll drag to the back with what I already have.

What else did I learn? What has been discussed and debated in too many other threads is definitely true: if you're a tuba major, a good 4/4 to just slightly larger CC tuba and the right mouthpiece can do at least 85% to 90% of anything you will ever need to do. Yes, you'll want an F if you do a lot of chamber work, and you'll need a BAT if you get to play with NY or Chicago, but any one of the tubas there today would do for everything, and I mean everything else: the PT6P, the PT6R, the PT20, the PT606, the old HB, the Nirschl, or even the 605 if you're playing a lot of German literature.

Me? Well, having played everything and listened to everybody else for over 2 hours, and being duly impressed all the way around, it's time to hang it up for the night and practice more tomorrow.

Thanks so much to Jeff Rideout for this singular opportunity to play so many wonderful instruments.

Sounds like a great time was had by all. I wish that this kinda stuff happened when I was still in Missouri. Oh well, glad to see Jeff was able to stop and show off all the wonderful things Custom has to offer people.

GirlMeetsBrass wrote:TYeah, the bling is nice, but all of these horns are rocking .630-ish bores and to me that's just too much.

Just to point out that the bore diameter listed by Custom Music for the Hirsbrunner is the outside diameter. Most mfgs.—including Besson, Yamaha, Miraphone, Meinl-Weston, Willson, York, and Sterling—list the inside diameter measured at the 2nd valve port. For the sake of comparison, the i.d. of the HB, is .590; for the Sovereign, Sterling Virtuoso, and PT37, the i.d. is .571; so the HB is larger than the others, but the difference is not nearly as great as the quoted numbers appear suggest.

I remember some military euph player telling me he didn't like the Hirsbrunner because it wasn't a big, projecting, full enough sound...

imperialbari wrote: When have Willson and Sterling changed their practises of presenting their instruments’ bores by the outside diameters of the 2nd and 4th valve male slide branches respectively?

Don't know when Sterling changed, but it must have been fairly recently, because their website now lists the o.d., but when I first contacted them in January '08, they gave me the i. d.

To my knowledge very few brass people measure the diameter of the 2nd valve ports. Most pull the 2nd slide and measure the inner diameter of one of the male slide branches.

As a matter of convenience, yes, that's how most people do it. I'm not aware, however, of any instance (at least on euphs) where the i. d. of the male slide branch of the 2nd valve slide is different to the i.d. of its valve port. So, effectively, measuring the bore at the male slide branch gives one the bore of the 2nd valve port.

Ok, so I was finally able to order my PT48. It arrived today.

Wow.

I had been worrying a bit since I tried the mouthpieces in Springfield that perhaps the way I sounded on the PT48 was a fluke, but I was worrying in vain. I just this minute got back from the practice room, and I can't stop smiling. It's just amazing to me how much difference a mouthpiece can make even on an old junker 186 CC. The PT48 really smoothed out the range, i.e., the notes all felt closer together to me. I didn't have to adjust nearly as much when playing large intervals and 3 octave arpeggios. It makes the low register sound huge, and it makes the high register easy. I guess the best way for me to describe it in my limited experience with mouthpieces is to say that it has all the best qualities of a G&W Bayamo and a Conn Helleberg. It makes notes very focused and makes the low register easier like the Bayamo, and it has great flexibility, warmth of tone, and a great feel like the Helleberg.

Now to start saving the $$ for that PT6...