TubeNet

Miraphone 1291, 186, 187, 191
MW 25, 195
King 2341

NDSP is right on. If money is no object I would add the MW Fafner (that isn't the 195, is it?). If money is a concern, I would consider adding the big Cerveny BBb (number?), assuming their quality is under control. I was also impressed by Dan Schultz's (tubatinker's) recent vintage St. Pete - however, I'm not sure that it's representative or typical.

Re euphoniums I would support the Willson but the Yamahas are good as well, though perhaps not as durable. I would not trust Besson again yet, and maybe not for a while.

It's not a super popular model, but I wouldn't put the MW 18 'Handy' behind you. It's super lightweight, but it can pump out lots of sound.

Piston models:

Small 4/4: King 2341.

Largish 4/4: Miraphone 1291.

Largish 5/4: Willson 3100.

Rotary models:

4/4: Miraphone 186.

5/4: Miraphone 191.

6/4: Meinl-Weston 195 (and, yes, that is the Fafner).

There are others, of course, but these consistently deliver the goods.

Rick "wondering how easy it is to get a 'bm symphonic' 5500 from Nirschl these days" Denney

jeopardymaster wrote:....... I was also impressed by Dan Schultz's (tubatinker's) recent vintage St. Pete - however, I'm not sure that it's representative or typical. .....

The key words there are 'recent vintage'.

In the military bands I was in, the standard was either a 186 or 187 Miraphone or Rudy Meinl 4/4. Hard to go wrong with one of those, if you like Rotary. Of course Peter Hirsbrunner makes nice rotary tubas, too. Fafners are nice, but a bit large, even for a band - especially considering that the players will probably also be doing BQ, T-EQ, Dixieland Band, etc. The PT-605 is very nice, if you like the B&S/PT thing. Also a little large, but quite fantastic are the Willson 3100 series BBb's. Lots of mileage can be put on the ol' M-W 25 . . .
Don't forget: get anvil cases for your horns. I've seen terrible things happen when the non-tuba load crew tosses horns into the truck on the way to/from the gig.

Let us know what you choose.

As regards euphoniums:

The Yamaha Custom 842S is a VERY nice horn.It plays a normal bass trombone shank. Listen to Adam Frey and you will not hear a "light" sound. He plays the Yamaha 53HL mouthpiece that comes with the 842S's. Its little brother the 642S is also a great horn. Either of these horns are great for a "sight unseen" purchase. You are very likely to get horns that are in tune and play equivalently. Going price for the 642S is around $4500 and for the 842S is around $5500.

The Willson 2900 is a superb horn and used by many of the soloists with the various DC service bands. It has been popularized by Brian Bowman and is the horn of choice (most often played with a DEG BB1) at Dr. Bowman's euphonium studio at UNT. These horns have an 11" bell and take a medioum (euro) shank mouthpiece which makes changing over from trombone a little more expensive (cost of a second mouthpiece). The Willson's are largely hand-made and run around $7000 for a new horn. The Willson 2950 has the larger 12+" bell and bass-trombone shank. These are not nearly as popular her in the US and are purported to have intonation issues.

If I were purchasing two horns for my band and wanted to insure that I had consistent quality and good intonation, I would almost certainly pick either the Yamaha 642S or 842S. If I had access to a number of horns and could hand pick the horns, I might decide something different.

(disclaimer: I do not own either a Willson or a Yamaha, though I have played both and really like them. My personal horn of choice is a Buffett-Besson Prestige 2051-2.)

Doug Ruby

Rick Denney wrote:Piston models:

Small 4/4: King 2341.

Largish 4/4: Miraphone 1291.

Largish 5/4: Willson 3100.

Rotary models:

4/4: Miraphone 186.

5/4: Miraphone 191.

6/4: Meinl-Weston 195 (and, yes, that is the Fafner).

That's a real "Murderer's Row" of fine BBb tubas!

Jeff "Take me out to the ballgame" Benedict

jeopardymaster wrote: If money is a concern, I would consider adding the big Cerveny BBb (number?), assuming their quality is under control.

If that's the same one I used (medium sized to my mind, pretty standard 4/4 I think) than I'm not sure I agree. Said horn had an excellent sound, but the intonation left much to be desired, F at the bottom of the staff especially, which can be a big deal if the band tunes to the tubas (as they should ). And they are horrible dent magnets, bad choice for any situation where they might get damaged.

My $.02

druby wrote: The Willson 2900 is a superb horn and used by many of the soloists with the various DC service bands. It has been popularized by Brian Bowman and is the horn of choice (most often played with a DEG BB1) at Dr. Bowman's euphonium studio at UNT. These horns have an 11" bell and take a medioum (euro) shank mouthpiece which makes changing over from trombone a little more expensive (cost of a second mouthpiece). The Willson's are largely hand-made and run around $7000 for a new horn. The Willson 2950 has the larger 12+" bell and bass-trombone shank. These are not nearly as popular her in the US and are purported to have intonation issues.

The 2900 is also available with a large shank (2900BT). The ones I've tried were noticably more open, responsive, and free blowing than the euro-shank model. If I had to choose between them, I'd go with the 2900BT.

JTJ, who posts here occasionally, owns a 2900BT and a 842. Might be worth shooting him a PM to solict his opinion if he doesn't weigh in here.

I was stunned by the willson 3100FA-5 last time I was at the frankfurt messe.
It's expensive, but affordable, unlike some other brands.

If you like compensating and upright 3+1 valves, there's the 3100TA-4 too, but I haven't played it yet.


bye and good luck

Wim

Be sure to try the new Willson 2960 Euphonium that was on display at ITEC08.

http://www.willson.ch/engl/index.html" target="_blank

or contact Dave Surber

davesurber@getzen.com" target="_blank

CB

I would add the VMI 3301/3302 to the list. It's slightly smaller than the 1291, but bigger than a King 2341. Typical German dimensions- larger bore and smaller bell than the King. If you are familiar with the PT-20p piston CC tuba, then you know the 3301 since the bell, bows, and 4 valve set are the same.

I play both the King 2341 and VMI 3301. They're quite different, but both are fun to play. The King is still American made and generally cheaper, but there is a vast difference in the build quality of the King and VMI, so you probably get what you pay for.

Bill Anderson

The Cerveny I was referring to is the 701 Kaiser model that Neptune has - not the 4/4 size often marketed as Amati. In my experience the Kaisers have been a little inconsistent but the good ones are stellar. That said, the metal is quite thin so yes, they are dent magnets. I agree with Rick also, the King 2341 is a fine BBb suitable for most occasions.