TubeNet

Often times reading posts here on tubenet, I become clueless, as I have no idea which brands makes consistently higher quality tubas or not. If some of you old tuba vets could provide me with a buyers guide to tuba brands and some of their best models, it would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, I'm also making a similar topic, but for mouthpieces.

Definately the old (or new) American horns: King, Martin, Conn, Buescher, York, Holton, Reynolds...) Also Besson, Hirsbrunner, Miraphone, Willson, Meinl Weston, and B&S are all definately top choices for most people. Now here are the brands I tend to stay away from: Yamaha, Jupiter, Weril, Amati..I have had nothing but bad experiences with them. To me they are cheaply made, rattle, click, dent easily, and the list goes on. I, and many others, would recommend an older American tuba and have it restored to like new condition, before buying any new horn. You would have a fine player there! my 2 cents

Basically everything the previous person said.

However, if you have the time/money/transportation, it's best to go to a facility where you can just try out as many horn brands as you like and see what's good for you. For example, for a few years I would slam Jupiter for everything it's worth, but when I went to Dillon's not too long ago and tried out their Jupiter C tubas and the bass trombone, I was amazed at how much good sound I got out of them.

If money's an issue, buying used is a great way to save money and still get a pretty good horn. Sometimes a used horn is better than putting 20K+ on a new one.

To me, it's not all about the name. Sometimes I feel we're buying items just for the name.

But don't get me wrong, many of those names do make great things.

Just my thoughts.

TUbajohn20J wrote:Definately the old (or new) American horns: King, Martin, Conn, Buescher, York, Holton, Reynolds...) Also Besson, Hirsbrunner, Miraphone, Willson, Meinl Weston, and B&S are all definately top choices for most people. Now here are the brands I tend to stay away from: Yamaha, Jupiter, Weril, Amati..I have had nothing but bad experiences with them. To me they are cheaply made, rattle, click, dent easily, and the list goes on. I, and many others, would recommend an older American tuba and have it restored to like new condition, before buying any new horn. You would have a fine player there! my 2 cents

While many folks would resoundingly agree with this wisdom, without knowing anything about this player's needs or his intentions (maybe he just wants to play casually and have fun without a 2nd mortgage?) - I think that a wholesale dismissal of some of the foreign horns is a little extensive.

There are plenty of people on the board that might take some umbrage with your opinion of Yammie or Jupiter - for many folks those horns are fine and enough. Personally while I'm not the biggest fan of Yamaha, I would recommend a play-tested instrument if the price were right (used or new for that matter). If you search my old posts I'm also a fan of Jupiters, having owned one myself (I wish I had that horn back!).

YMMV

This thread is of interest to me right now because I'm looking to replace my Amati (Cerveny 681 4 RV) and I'm not handy to a place that stocks horns I could try. I get the impression that manufacturers like MW, Miraphone, (and B&S?) are more consistent in quality, intonation, etc. . . so that, perhaps, the the horn you try doesn't have to be the specific one you buy?
Other questions that won't be easy to answer for me center around what size and configuration do I want. I have played a Cerveny 701, and, after a couple of days learning to fill it up, I really liked it. However, it's kind of big and unwieldy. . . but my point is, that a few minutes playing a horn don't necessarily predict how well you'll settle in on it.
I like my Amati; It's in tune and and has good range. I put a set of monster weights on it, so I can blow fairly loud without blatting. In a new horn I'm looking for a stronger low range (those DDs and CCCs) with good intonation and better valve action. I'm willing to go to 5 valves.
ANY comments are welcome.

There are several fine tubas manufacturers. Not everyone will like every horn or every manufacturer. I have always believed that when choosing a horn you need to play it. I would not own the horns I do if I had not played them. In both occassions I just tried the horn to see how they sounded, and both times these (what some might consider second teir) horns turn out to be the ones I sounded best on. One I have owned and performed on for the past 15 years. The other is a recent purchase. If I sound good on the horn and it feels right I will keep it. When you do go to play a horn it is always best to have a second pair of ears with you. I try to bring someone with more skill than myself to also play and listen.

I thought that for many of the American brands, they produce only their proline instruments in the U.S. The student and intermediate lines are outsourced to china. could someone who is in the know clear that up also.

TubaCoopa wrote:Often times reading posts here on tubenet, I become clueless, as I have no idea which brands makes consistently higher quality tubas or not. If some of you old tuba vets could provide me with a buyers guide to tuba brands and some of their best models, it would be greatly appreciated.

By the way, I'm also making a similar topic, but for mouthpieces.

One of the reasons that it is confusing is that what makes a good-playing tuba is not necessarily related closely to good craftsmanship. I have a Holton BB-345 which I believe to be one of the great 6/4 Bb tubas ever made, but the construction quality from the factory was just dreadful. A new King 2341 will not show the craftsmanship of any first-line German or Swiss tuba, but I'd rather have it than many of those. People consider Yamaha's craftsmanship to be workmanlike but not artistic, and I would agree. But the YFB-621 is still a great small F tuba, worthy of consideration by any professional for certain applications. In the old days, the craftsmanship of the B&S tubas, which were made in East Germany and subject to the effects of central planning that could distort quality control, ranged from good to only "okay". But those F tubas ushered in the modern orchestral F tuba concept, and they are still among the best. Some think the Bb tubas made by B&S in that era are still among the best rotary Bb tubas ever made, despite that many were made with moderate quality to fit a low price point at the time. I owned a Cerveny-made Sanders back in the day that demonstrated poor craftsmanship but that played actually pretty well. Other examples abound.

For tubas that are pretty to look at, the hand-made instruments from Meinl-Weston, Hirsbrunner, and Willson, and the "pro" model instruments from Miraphone and VMI, establish a high standard for quality of construction compared to the workmanlike but unartistic consistency of Yamaha or the mass-produced feel of American manufacturers. The price usually reflects that quality model (though Yamaha still seems pricey to me considering their delivered quality). But if I bought tubas based on the apparent craftsmanship, I would own different instruments than I do, with (I believe) negative effects on both my wallet and my sound.

Rick "who evaluates a tuba mostly by what comes out of the bell" Denney

Going down into the realm of used 'budget horns', what are the names of some good stencil horns that might seem obscure but actually are good horns made by good manufacturers?

I know B&S made a few but Crown is the only one to come to mind... I've heard of the 'Conn/Olds Connection", too.

Does anybody know a reputable store with lots of tubas that I can test out? Preferably in central Florida, but anywhere else in the state (Maybe also Georgia) would work too.

I thinkthe M&M guys are based somewhere in Florida. You might want to check with them. As for the list, I'm just a bit mystified about why to include the Reynolds and Olds marks as tried-and-true old models. To me the little Olds (O99?) is OK if you want a compact horn to schlep, but I never met a Reynolds tuba that I liked. Wasn't very big on Martin either, but I very seldom have had the opportunity to try one. Meanwhile, the craftsmanship apparent in the VMI Neptune is impressive, in my opinion anyway -- the rotary model is positively elegant.

I figured whichever horn gives you a quality of sound you are looking for and is fun to play and works well you with you, stick with it!

TubaMM is located in Ft. Lauderdale. I've heard good things about their stuff, and I'm planning on driving up there in a few days to try some out.

Amati is a Cerveny brand--the heir to the ORIGINAL tuba.

I'd certainly argue with Weril as a junk brand also, as well as Yamaha and Amati. Jupiter isn't quite in the same league, especially for pro level horns, but I would hesitate to roundly dismiss them as junk.

Olds and Reynolds don't hold any real weight with me for pro level instruments, at least tubas. Martin---I'd give a major organ to get a good BAT 4 valve recording bell Martin. (maybe BAT isn't really appropriate, but the big one, at least). A good Martin will , IMO, blow away a good 25J.

brianggilbert wrote:
While many folks would resoundingly agree with this wisdom, without knowing anything about this player's needs or his intentions (maybe he just wants to play casually and have fun without a 2nd mortgage?) - I think that a wholesale dismissal of some of the foreign horns is a little extensive.

There are plenty of people on the board that might take some umbrage with your opinion of Yammie or Jupiter - for many folks those horns are fine and enough. Personally while I'm not the biggest fan of Yamaha, I would recommend a play-tested instrument if the price were right (used or new for that matter). If you search my old posts I'm also a fan of Jupiters, having owned one myself (I wish I had that horn back!).

YMMV

I emphasized that because that's me as a tuba player. I play an Amati ABB323 - 3/4 BBb. It's not the greatest horn, but it's what I could afford and it does the job in community band and church ensemble. Plus, it's a lot easier to play standing up. I've had it for 9 years now. The best thing I did to improve its sound (besides practicing) was to switch from a Bach 18 to a Helleberg mouthpiece. That said, I have fun playing the tuba and I'll get my high dollar horn when I win the lottery.

Sometimes a leap of faith must be taken. I purchased a 98 year old Martin Eb on Ebay. On the picture it looked like a dull gray, dented piece of art decoration. When it arrived it would not play, even blow air through. I washed it out with garden hose, and washed out a birds nest complete with dead baby birds. Lots of polish, elbow grease and a trip to a good repair man has provided a great sounding tuba. I would not part with this tuba for anything.

Disclaimer - I wasn't knocking Martin, I just haven't seen very many that hadn't been abused or neglected into garden art. If they're as good as I've been told, much more the pity.

FWIW, M&M markets Alexander as well as those Chinese "generics." Which often play pretty well, by the way. Not so sure about maintainability or durability, however.

DP wrote:

The Big Ben wrote:Going down into the realm of used 'budget horns', what are the names of some good stencil horns that might seem obscure but actually are good horns made by good manufacturers? I know B&S made a few but Crown is the only one to come to mind... I've heard of the 'Conn/Olds Connection", too.

Karl Ziess (the larger-bore ones)
Sonora
Lignatone
Schmutz-o-phone (no, I made that one up)

If the post is up here long enough, eventually every brand of tuba will have been listed.

Meister Gerhard Schneider (an old, tall-bell B&S)
Vespro (made by VMI)
F. Schmitz (identical to a VMI and some B&S models, but not that cheap)
Wunderlich

None of these are current stencils, though. Most of the recent stencils I've seen are Asian, and they range from unplayable to competent. This includes many of the old American brands that now exist as a brand name only, such as Olds.

Rick "noting that Yamaha makes a lot of stencil instruments, too" Denney

Kayla wrote:To me, it's not all about the name. Sometimes I feel we're buying items just for the name.

I think you're spot-on with that comment, Kayla. I believe that many of us suffer from marketing "snob appeal" the same way we suffer from "I have to play CC tuba to be a professional." What a real shame. Snob appeal definitely helps when reselling a horn, but it doesn't mean that it's a great horn; the same way that not all CC players are great players and not all BBb players stink. That's just silly.

Try out as many as you can, even if you have to drive or fly to do it. You'll never know what finally ends up working best for you. Buying an instrument that costs over a grand (or two, or twenty) is a big financial investment for most people, and you're probably going to spend countless hours playing it, so isn't it worth the trip?

tubashaman wrote:True their BBbs suck.....

You could do worse...and yeah, yeah, you could do better too...

bort wrote:

tubashaman wrote:True their BBbs suck.....

You could do worse...and yeah, yeah, you could do better too...

Much better.

Side note: My impression with yamahas is that they sound a bit stuffy. I talked to a french horn player who said the same think about yamaha french horns. Interesting.