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I am practicing for an upcoming audition in august and am finding my tone to be quite airy. It is driving me mad! The worst part is, is that I never have an airy tone in rehersals, auditions, or playing in any ensemble. I haven't changed mouthpieces or anything in at least 3 months. I went to band camp last month and filled the hall with a huge, dark, and luxurious sound. So I am trying to find somthing that I can do to change this problem. If it matters I am playing on a Miraphone 188 with a PT-88 Mouthpiece.

When my subconscious gets in a bad rut, I throw a substantially different mouthpiece at it -- one that it doesn't have a rut for. Eventually, I might go back the original mouthpiece; or something entirely different.

tubatom91 wrote:I am finding my tone to be quite airy. [but] I never have an airy tone in rehersals, auditions, or playing in any ensemble.

That makes no sense at all to me...what would you possibly do differently while practicing to make the tone more airy?

Do you record yourself? If not, do so, with a reasonably high-fidelity recording device...it doesn't have to be great or even terribly expensive, just good enough to be able to evaluate your tone quality "off the horn." Sometimes your ears can play some pretty weird tricks on you while you're playing.

Just last month you had a huge, dark, and luxurious sound...I'll take a bit of advice from the master here - since you obviously have the facility to produce a beautiful sound, quit thinking about how to do it and just reproduce the sound in your head. Song and wind.

I should have thought about it more. But, that week at band camp I thought in my head (Arnold Jacobs, Arnold Jacobs, Arnold Jacobs, Arnold Jacobs......). I should have tried this now considering that I own and reference that book often.

Could be the room. If you had a great sound in a hall, but have an airy sound while practicing in say, your parents basement or something (like me! ) then it might not have anything to do with you at all.

Nick Pierce wrote:Could be the room. If you had a great sound in a hall, but have an airy sound while practicing in say, your parents basement or something (like me! ) then it might not have anything to do with you at all.

I couldn't disagree more. I've heard some really fine players, and have found that they always sound very fine, no matter where they are playing...one might conclude that it's that quality that makes them such fine players. Can you imagine Gene Pokorny or Sam Pilafian complaining about a dead room in a masterclass?

You can't "use the room" to make your sound better, any more than you can "use" a BAT to sound louder or an F tuba to play high notes easier.

Practice in a place with the most terrible acoustics imaginable. Worse than the seventh level of hell itself. Sound good there, and just imagine how easy it will be to sound good in a nice hall.

Besides, it's a given that any audition you ever face will be held in the room referenced above (the HOT one).

I'm kinda puzzled on the difference in tone quality from rehearsal to practice room, so I don't know what to say about that, but I'll second the usage of recording yourself in practice sessions. A nice-quality recorder would be ideal, but a cheap little tape recorder is fine, too.

You might want to go further as to invite one or several of your musician friends (tuba and otherwise) to see how you are doing. Maybe a kind of musical intervention.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:

Nick Pierce wrote:Could be the room. If you had a great sound in a hall, but have an airy sound while practicing in say, your parents basement or something (like me! ) then it might not have anything to do with you at all.

I couldn't disagree more. I've heard some really fine players, and have found that they always sound very fine, no matter where they are playing...one might conclude that it's that quality that makes them such fine players. Can you imagine Gene Pokorny or Sam Pilafian complaining about a dead room in a masterclass?

You can't "use the room" to make your sound better, any more than you can "use" a BAT to sound louder or an F tuba to play high notes easier.

Practice in a place with the most terrible acoustics imaginable. Worse than the seventh level of hell itself. Sound good there, and just imagine how easy it will be to sound good in a nice hall.

Besides, it's a given that any audition you ever face will be held in the room referenced above (the HOT one).

True, the greats will sound good anywhere, sit in a bad room with them, and they'll still sound great. Sit in a bad room and listen to a good player play and they'll still sound good. But in a room with bad acoustics you might still sound great but not think you do, simply because you can't hear yourself as well. You said yourself, "Practice in a place with the most terrible acoustics imaginable. Worse than the seventh level of hell itself. Sound good there, and just imagine how easy it will be to sound good in a nice hall." Isn't that related to what I said, or working off the same principle? If not, please forgive me for my ignorance, and enlighten me. Seriously, if there's something I don't know about this and it's making me look like an idiot, let me know. Please.

I'm kinda puzzled on the difference in tone quality from rehearsal to practice room

For an extreme example, play in a reverberant sancturary of a big, liturgical (usually) church. The room emphasizes the low fundamental of the horn, and you can do no wrong. It's hard to sound bad in a place like that. Get used to that, then go to your crappy little practice room where all the bass gets sucked out of the tone. Now it's all up to your ruby red lips 'cuz the room ain't doing you no favors.

SplatterTone wrote:

I'm kinda puzzled on the difference in tone quality from rehearsal to practice room

For an extreme example, play in a reverberant sancturary of a big, liturgical (usually) church. The room emphasizes the low fundamental of the horn, and you can do no wrong. It's hard to sound bad in a place like that. Get used to that, then go to your crappy little practice room where all the bass gets sucked out of the tone. Now it's all up to your ruby red lips 'cuz the room ain't doing you no favors.

I get that, and those big halls are super awesome, but what's puzzling me is his "airy" comment. I hear a change in my sound in the practice room, but not like that.

but what's puzzling me is his "airy" comment

I took him at his word. It's pretty common for players to suddenly get in a bad rut. Some people deal with by taking a break for a week. I deal with by making a big change in the mouthpiece for a while. I think the cause is some brain circuitry in the subconscious gets cross-wired, and now you're in a bad rut. Throwing a different mouthpiece at it is sort of like a reboot. So is taking a break.

Nick Pierce wrote:Seriously, if there's something I don't know about this and it's making me look like an idiot, let me know. Please.

Relax...you don't look like an idiot, and I'm not calling you one.

I disagree with the advice you gave...specifically, the line "it might not have anything to do with you at all." To my reading, with that line you are telling the OP he might have a great sound but the crappy room where he practices makes him sound bad.

I'm saying pretty much the opposite...that there's no way a room makes you sound worse than you really are, but some rooms can "cover" the fact that you're tone isn't so great. Hence my reference to great players who sound great no matter where they play...it's because they do have a great sound.

Many low brass players get in the habit of only playing where they sound good to themselves...usually in very live concert halls and high-ceiling rehearsal rooms. I stand by my recommendation that it is much better to learn to sound good in small, dry rooms...you'll get a much better feeling for what's really coming out of your bell.

So, if the problem really is the room, the OP is finding out when he practices that he has an airy tone and only thinks he has a huge, dark, and luxurious sound because of a certain place. You can hardly say that has nothing to do with him at all.

Todd S. "who believes that whatever sound you hear coming out of the bell always has something to do with you" Malicoate

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:

Nick Pierce wrote:Seriously, if there's something I don't know about this and it's making me look like an idiot, let me know. Please.

Relax...you don't look like an idiot, and I'm not calling you one.

I disagree with the advice you gave...specifically, the line "it might not have anything to do with you at all." To my reading, with that line you are telling the OP he might have a great sound but the crappy room where he practices makes him sound bad.

I'm saying pretty much the opposite...that there's no way a room makes you sound worse than you really are, but some rooms can "cover" the fact that you're tone isn't so great. Hence my reference to great players who sound great no matter where they play...it's because they do have a great sound.

Many low brass players get in the habit of only playing where they sound good to themselves...usually in very live concert halls and high-ceiling rehearsal rooms. I stand by my recommendation that it is much better to learn to sound good in small, dry rooms...you'll get a much better feeling for what's really coming out of your bell.

So, if the problem really is the room, the OP is finding out when he practices that he has an airy tone and only thinks he has a huge, dark, and luxurious sound because of a certain place. You can hardly say that has nothing to do with him at all.

Todd S. "who believes that whatever sound you hear coming out of the bell always has something to do with you" Malicoate

I agree with the idea of practicing in a dead space, as if you can sound good there, you can sound good anywhere. I guess I'm just looking at things backwards. Maybe I should go to bed. Do we have a smiley for that?

the elephant wrote:

Nick Pierce wrote:Maybe I should go to bed. Do we have a smiley for that?

No problem. Here you go…

How'd I know you'd be the one to have one?

the elephant wrote:'Cause I'm mean?

How was that mean? Mean would be a smilie with bloodshot eyes who's an insomniac, or something implying "sleeping with the fishes" or something.

the elephant wrote:Tom, I think it's the coil. No. Wait a minute…

the elephant wrote:

Nick Pierce wrote:Maybe I should go to bed. Do we have a smiley for that?

No problem. Here you go…

I just got done waxing the bottom of a boat I'm thinking it's definatly time for bed

the elephant wrote:

Nick Pierce wrote:

the elephant wrote:'Cause I'm mean?

How was that mean? Mean would be a smilie with bloodshot eyes who's an insomniac, or something implying "sleeping with the fishes" or something.

Nah, I get called mean by some here. I joke about it all the time as I find it to be quite funny.

I know you're mean. Don't tell me you've forgotten my soliloquy about your meanness?

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27190&start=528

Hmm. As we sit under the bell, hearing ourselves is as much a function of direct jawbone transmission of the sound back to our ears as actually hearing what comes out of the bell. When I have a cold, or the sinuses are not in the best shape for whatever reason, I find myself wondering if my tone is off, just to have people out front say it's fine. Do these "airy" spells have any correlation to any difference in how you feel physically from day to day?

And regarding acoustics: it's not the acoustics, per say, that affect the tone, because the true fundamentals of the range are perceived as non-directional. What affects the tone mostly is a function of physics: the size of the room and its resonant frequency, and how that impacts certain notes, both their fundamentals and their overtone structure. Any acoustically absorbant or reflective materials have less of an impact on actual tonality, as they usually have a broad spectrum, so they affect everything evenly. And part of what makes a good player a good player is the ability to adjust the playing to fit the room, which is more important on a bass instrument than anything else.

I demonstrated this for a friend in my living room, which even though it has the usual ranch-style great room with the tall ceiling is too small to resonate the fundamental of pedal BBb. I warmed up, closed both the front and back door, and started down the scale. I got to near pedal Db, and started losing response pretty quickly. I opened one door to effectively change the "resonance chamber" to a "ported enclosure," and Db and C started to respond, but no open pedal BBb. I opened the other door, which effectively changed it again to something approaching completely open, and pedal BBb rang out good and clear.

That said, I tend to sit to practice in a place where my living room and kitchen meet, so I can get some near-field reflection directly off the kitchen ceiling to help with perceiving clarity of articulation, and some broader reflective tone off the living room which does have the high ceiling.

Have you checked if something has happened to your water key or to the alignment of the valves?

Klaus

You said you were preparing for an audition. Maybe, you're overdoing things, or spending a lot of time on one particular aspect of your playing, and neglecting other areas. I agree with Scooby. Back off for a day or 2 and see if it improves. Also, try the mp buzzing and play low etudes (efficiency and air) and see if it feels any better.