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Serge. PM me.

I know exactly what you're going through. I waited far longer than you to really take a step back and take stock. Congratulations on actually hearing advice when it's given. It's a very adult thing you're doing.

Truth be told, it's very hard to change much about your personality. It's going to take some time and work. I'd suggest that you might to need to have a look at how others may perceive you, your actions and the things that come out of your mouth. I don't consider myself enlightened to the point that I could coach anyone on the matter but I'm proud that I'm finally a work in progress.

I was given a fabulous audio book (http://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Self-D ... 1572704446) that has helped open my eyes a little bit - enough to finally notice the changes that need to happen. Yeah... the fact that somebody suggested the book was enough to open my eyes to the fact that I might need to have a good look at myself.

The truth is, the book isn't marketed as a self-evaluation excercise but it made me frightenly aware of at least a few of my short-comings regarding my personality/perception. I'm still hard at work and will be indefinately..... at least for as long as I care what other people might think of me.

I don't claim to have all the answers. In fact, I'm not sure I have very many of them. However, I would recommend a couple of things.

First, try to see things in the band(and perhaps elsewhere) from the standpoint of "we," not "I." This will frame things just a little differently and should help to begin to mend things with others.

Secondly, try not to shoot from the hip. In other words, you may want to think about what you are going to say before you say it. Many times when I just say the first thing that comes to mind, I end up with my foot in my mouth, and with the person I am addressing being very displeased with me. If you typical tend to offend people, you may want to think more and say less. You will also find this leads to your learning more, as well. After all, you are not responsible for teaching everyone everything. Are you?

Lastly, I agree with Toobist that you are taking a very positive step. If you want to make some changes, and you are willing to take the steps to change, and you take the right attitude with you, you will eventually succeed.

Best of luck.

Okay, here goes...

Be very careful, my fellow tnfj, on how you address this situation. This director has been accused numerous times of mis-doings. And while the truth is nowhere for us to be known, it is a very important piece in this jigsaw puzzle. This is not an attempt to defame or slander the director, but it may be of note that he has a very interesting history in the state.

http://www.arkansasleader.com/2006/06/t ... sible.html" target="_blank" target="_blank


Yes, angry parents do exist. Yes, misinformation exists. But pages of stuff like this existing in reference to one person is RARELY all false accusations.

I have a couple of very simple suggestions :
1.) Treat people they way you would want them to treat you.( Do unto others ..etc ..)
2.) Read the book " How to Win Friends and Influence People ) by Dale Carnegie .
http://www.westegg.com/unmaintained/car ... iends.html" target="_blank


I was forced to read the book way back in the days when I was in sales. Although the advice is mostly common sense type stuff Carnegie lays it out in a very sensible way. It's very powerful reading and will really help you improve your realtionship with the band director. Basically you need to do more listening and think before you speak.
The best salespeople I have ever known did more listening then they did talking.

All the above. In addition, work at replacing sarcasm as a feeble attempt at humor with finding something to truly appreciate about each person you interact with, especially in such an environment as a performing ensemble. That will help you get along both with the person and play better in the ensemble, and will help you progress along your sincere desire to change.

As both a band director, and a player in a great many ensembles... I can only offer my take on the situation. I can be sarcastic, even sardonic, at times. I like to make what I think are clever comments that are sometimes hurtful. I struggle with others perceptions of my attitude. I have come to a place where I weigh the advantages of being in the group with my desire to say stuff. Some groups I play with are worth keeping my mouth shut. Some groups are not, so I spew forth. I try to always be in control of ME and that helps control the situation.

How badly do you want to be in this band?

Carroll wrote:I can be sarcastic, even sardonic, at times. I like to make what I think are clever comments that are sometimes hurtful. I struggle with others perceptions of my attitude.

charlittle wrote:In many ways, I used to use sarcasm as a defense mechanism when I felt intimidated in a situation (throughout college in my euphonium lessons--one example).

Seemingly "harmless" things like this can have great ramifications. I remember asking for a tuning note from a bunch of uncooperative string players - and playfully saying, "Give me an A or I won't give you an A" and having a huge outcry from freaked out parents. I also remember joking with a high school girl who had very big / think hair, who claimed she absolutely couldn't afford a tuner, metronome, or whatever similar priced small item it was that I suggested. I joked that she probably spends that much a week on shampoo. Needless to say, a very angry parent called me that night. These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head that landed me in the headmaster's office on a near daily basis during my short stay at that small private school. ANYTHING you say can and will be used against you.

bloke wrote:MARTY NEILAN HAS ANTS IN HIS PANTS!!!

Not anymore - read my latest addition to the update thread

It's a crazy world...

I have two young sons, and I have a hard time facing the reality that they're going to have to go to school. I'm not thrilled...

I have an education degree. I chose not to pursue a career in music ed because of my very enlightening experiences as a student teacher. Scared straight may not be the way to phrase it, but you have to be either so crazy or so dedicated that I knew I would be a square peg in a round hole.

That said, teachers live in a world where the kids that come in are so protected that they can’t ride bikes without helmets, play in the yard, play with sticks, wade in the water, or anything that involves any risk whatsoever; at the same time, parents often "protect" their children from what they consider emotional harm, like criticism, judgment, failure, behavior correction, punishment, or anything related to guiding a child in any way other than "supportive."

Teachers then get their hands on rambunctious, self important, bossy hellions who will do anything to entertain themselves, with no built in mechanisms of self control, self correction, learning, respect for themselves or others, or any really redeeming qualities save for their potentials, which vary considerably, of course.

And the parents still want to "protect" them. No red markers. No jokes. No consequences. But teach them – somehow.

I really don't want my kids around these creatures...

There are good teachers, effective teachers, who somehow survive and have successful programs. I'm astonished, and I respect these people very much. But they are few in number.

To he who started this thread: you've been given great advice. Shut up. Listen. Think before you speak; it might even improve your sarcasm to something more polished that everyone appreciates.

While you are not an office worker, an enlightening read is "45 Things You Do that Drive Your Boss Crazy," by Anita Bruzzese (sp?). A good read for anyone in a hierarchy structure and those needing to get along with others. You may learn a lot about yourself and how people respond to you and why. You're wise to strive for your betterment; many should learn from you. And this tenacity and introspection can only aid your playing as well if you apply it to your practice and performance.

As for teachers who cross the line - I have no pity. You should know the boundaries in this day and age. If a single thought ever crosses your mind that you can cross it in any way - QUIT. Now. Before you get in real trouble. Even if you don't "do" anything, you're already across the line. And to schools who shelter those teachers - GET busy. I'm not in favor of finding guilt without trial, but get to it and NOW!

Off my high horse now .

J.c.

Humor is criticism.

Interesting. I'll have to chew on that for a bit. Reminds me of Heinlein's remark that laughter is how we deal with pain; it hurts, or humor hurts, so we laugh.

Too late to be thinking - 'nite...

J.c.S.

Serge wrote:I'm a naturally sarcastic, supposedly judgmental, and arrogant person

1. Replace sarcasm with irony.
2. Replace judgementalism with a "who cares, it's no skin off my butt" attitude.
3. Replace arrogance with self-deprication. It's a lot better to lower people's expectations of you and pleasantly surprise them that it is to build them up and then fall short of expectations.

Problem solved.

This process should take you a lifetime to accomplish.

MileMarkerZero wrote:1. Replace sarcasm with irony.
2. Replace judgementalism with a "who cares, it's no skin off my butt" attitude.
3. Replace arrogance with self-deprication. It's a lot better to lower people's expectations of you and pleasantly surprise them that it is to build them up and then fall short of expectations.

Problem solved.

This process should take you a lifetime to accomplish.

Thanks,

Now I have my goal before me.

Carroll wrote:

MileMarkerZero wrote:1. Replace sarcasm with irony.
2. Replace judgementalism with a "who cares, it's no skin off my butt" attitude.
3. Replace arrogance with self-deprication. It's a lot better to lower people's expectations of you and pleasantly surprise them that it is to build them up and then fall short of expectations.

Problem solved.

This process should take you a lifetime to accomplish.

Thanks,

Now I have my goal before me.

Good luck...I've been at it for 40 years and ain't made it yet...

I must have the wrong dictionaries. When I looked it up in one the definition of "irony" read:

Like goldy or bronzy, only made of iron.

The other read:

See irony.

I think I just caught Bloke deleting another of his posts. I could have sworn he had replied to Effie's post on the definition of irony. Didn't capture an image of it, though.

jeopardymaster wrote:I must have the wrong dictionaries. When I looked it up in one the definition of "irony" read:

Like goldy or bronzy, only made of iron.

The other read:
See irony.

And, of course, don't forget just plain "iron knee."

That's deep, man.

Possibly the longest troll I've ever bothered to read. And, total crap.

Reminds me of outcome-based education...nothing's actually correct, 2+2=5 if you feel good about it, grades are merely a subjective way of putting a value on how one person (the teacher) views your work. Baloney...that stuff is worthless in a real world filled with competition.

I particularly like your example of the car changing lanes and cutting me off...you're right, I shouldn't think he's wrong...that's just my unreasonable expectations that the person in front of me should have checked his mirrors and over the shoulder before swerving into me. I'll be sure and tell the officer that one next time I get pulled over for a moving violation. Sheesh.

Then again, I might just think I'm right. I'm an asshole that way. Whoops, got you...you think I'm an asshole! Must be you...