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A friend of mine is trying out a M-W 2040/5 Eb as a companion tuba for his existing 6/4 Neptune CC and commented "Don't they look like they belong together?" Something with which I entirely agree! Those two tubas have nice differing, but complimentary tones, both can be used with the playing stand the same height, for me work with the same mouthpiece (PT-90), are easy to switch between and generally make a great pair to cover all playing requirements.

I do not remember this discussed previously, so my question is - What pair of bass and contrabass tuba do you find really belong to each other?

PT-6, and PT-15 (rotary valves of course)

Besson/Boosey EEb and big Holton CC

In Honor of John Fletcher

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MW Kodiak and MW Fafner

Just could be my dream team
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My first two tubas were vintage Alexander twins; c.1969 CC & F...oh, the memories...though I'm quite thrilled with my current Gronitz cousins...PCK & PF-125!!!

York 1 & 2~

#3 never quite felt right to me...

eupher61 wrote:#3 never quite felt right to me...

Me, neither. That's why I buried it in my backyard.

On the subject at hand, I've found that those who play Miraphone 186 tubas, either Bb or C, seem to particularly be drawn to the Yamaha 621 F tuba. I think that the tones are complementary without being alike, and both share excellent and consistent intonation.

My B&S F tuba is nearly as big as my Miraphone, and I think of it as more of a pair with the Holton, or with a biggish Alex.

Rick "who has noted that piston tubas often seem to match well with rotary tubas" Denney

A big bore B-flat, and another big bore B-flat. Really. Not kidding.
How about Miraphone 191 and a Miraphone 1291?
Oh, I like the sound of that.

This is a great question. I have been wondering, too.

After a number of years with a 4/4 CC "do everything" tuba (a M-W model 32), I finally got an F tuba, a Yamaha 822 (which has a terrific low range). I really love them both, but the contrast between the medium-size CC and the rather large F is not as much as it might be. [I also have a little Eb I play sometimes, but not seriously.]

I have been thinking about two courses of action: Trade the 4/4CC tuba for a 5/4CC, or keep the 4/4 CC add a 6/4 CC tuba to my collection. [I'm not getting into BBb versus CC or Eb versus F here. I like them all, but I don't have the time to maintain proficiency in many different tuba pitches.] Of course, owning three tubas means either spending more time maintaining proficiency with three different instruments with all of their quirks, or not playing one (or more) of them well.

Can we consider a three-tuba method versus a two-tuba method for having a good variety of tonal colors and playing characteristics?

Cheers,
Allen

You have all missed the classic pairs:

1) B&H/Besson Imp/New Standard/Sov in Eb/BBb; and

2) The King or Conn pre-WWII pairs of Eb & BBb together, both in tubas and souzys.

Thanks for the vote for the 38K. It actually sounds best with either a 14K or variant, or a King 1250 or variant, both in BBb.

Well, the Apollo and Neptune seemed to have been designed together for Mel Culbertson.

Allen wrote:Can we consider a three-tuba method versus a two-tuba method for having a good variety of tonal colors and playing characteristics?

Hey! I resemble that remark! I have the Besson for "fun" gigs, the Miraphone for "serious" gigs, and the Conn 38K for almost all outdoor gigs, except when playing Christmas carols for the Salvation Army, when, of course, being originally a UK institution, I play the Besson.

This isn't much of a contribution, but I think I know one of the worst set ups.

Besson 983 and Miraphone 186

Wait, are we talking about two tubas to be owned by the same person to be played on different occasions, or two tubas to be played at the same time by two people sitting next to each other in a section? I think I see both up there.

Nick Pierce wrote:Wait, are we talking about two tubas to be owned by the same person to be played on different occasions, or two tubas to be played at the same time by two people sitting next to each other in a section? I think I see both up there.

I was talking about two complementary tubas to be played by one person to cover their musical activities

Allen wrote:Can we consider a three-tuba method versus a two-tuba method for having a good variety of tonal colors and playing characteristics?

Jay Bertolet used to post his strategy of using four instruments to cover the range of musical styles. He used a large contrabass for earth-mover orchestral and band parts, a small contrabass for a more pointed sound (particularly in smaller groups), a large bass for orchestral use, and a small bass for chamber music and solos. Knowing Jay, it was never an issue of making the notes, and always an issue of making the right sound.

I use a large F for large ensembles, because the small F that I love cannot produce the volume and projection needed in large groups. I find that I use my large contrabass most of the time, but it's a reasonably versatile instrument. The greatest overlap is between the small contrabass and the large bass, though if the music spends a lot of time below the bass clef, the contrabass requires less work.

There is another aspect to this question, and that is how different are the approaches required for the various instruments. That's probably as much a reason for the compatibility of the Miraphone 186 and the Yamaha 621 F tuba--they seem to me to blow similarly. If I blow my B&S F tuba the same way I blow either one of those, or the same way I play the Holton, it loses focus instantly. It takes a much different approach. That said, those differences probably suggest needed improvement in the way I blow the big instruments more than anything.

Back to Jay's strategy: I have the instruments needed to test his theory, but I find that I use three rather than four. I rarely need a small contrabass, as it turns out. But that is more related to my playing opportunities than anything. I don't often play in a 20-piece ensemble, but when I do, I use the Miraphone or one of the other smaller contrabass tubas. Often, those are standing gigs and the need to have instrument that can be managed while standing is as big an element in that decision as anything. I played both the Miraphone and the York Master extensively enough in the past that I can never really forget their quirks.

Rick "who cannot stand while playing the Holton" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:Rick "who cannot stand while playing the Holton" Denney

It is difficult standing with a 6/4. The most i have played my Neptune standing has been for the national anthem. A minute of holding up that monster is enough

You complete me.

I think at the core of the original question, is whether you are looking for a homogenous tuba sound, over a wider range of pitches, or if you want a variety of tone color, as well as comfort over a wide range of pitches.

I personally tend to favor the variety-pack approach, if only to entertain myself.

I sometimes wonder, though, if using "multiple tone colors" can cause problems when freelancing. If you are playing a gig where no one knows you, and you happen to bring a horn that doesn't match the prevailing sound concept of the group (either by bringing a BAT to an orchestra gig where the conductor/contractor subconsciously prefers a more pointed sound, or bringing a small tuba to a quintet gig, where they prefer a bigger, broad sound on the bottom of the group) might cause a problem for potential future employment with that group.

Theoretically, since nobody thinks about this stuff besides us, it might not occur to the decision makes in the various groups that their subtle feeling of dissatisfaction is a result of a mismatched choice of instrument, and not the playing itself (we're talking in theory here...).

Any thoughts?

Uncle Buck wrote:You complete me.

batman.jpg

Thank you.

Neptune wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:Rick "who cannot stand while playing the Holton" Denney

It is difficult standing with a 6/4. The most i have played my Neptune standing has been for the national anthem. A minute of holding up that monster is enough

Johnathan,
Having used my old Neptune and the unfinished Holton '345' Bb, your back would thank you for choosing the Neptune if it knew. The Holton is bloody heavy...

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On-topic though...
In Orchestra lot of guys seem to have success with just two tubas, pairing a 5/4 contra and a large bass.
Specifically the PT6 coupled with YFB822 in the US (or a Besson Eb in the UK).
Best.

Took my 983 in to the shop for a flush and to pop a dent so I pulled a King 2341 out of the equipment locker to practice a little today and I think that the King and the Besson would be a good pair together. It played in a similar fashion to my 983 and had a very pleasing sound even though it was still mee playing I'll have to sit and play both when I pick up the 983 from the shop.