TubeNet

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:47 pm**

Hello all,

I am trying to get ideas on a writing up a private lesson contract. I was wondering if anyone had one that they wouldn't mind sending me or posting so I could gather ideas. Basically, I am trying to have something that is short and sweet and helps me make sure I get paid.

What I know I will include:
rate
cancellation policy: I require payment for missed lessons without 24hrs. notice. If I or the student have to miss the scheduled lesson it will be made up at a mutaully convenient time.
2 references

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:28 pm**

I do plan on having a monthly payment plan, sorry to leave that out. And yes, I do see the first few lessons as a job interview. The parents are paying me for a service, right? I would look up who was teaching my kids if I had kids.

-thanks for the tips.

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:50 pm**

bloke wrote: - payment in advance for quite a few lessons: If the parents won't cough up some dough in advance, they aren't serious. If the parents aren't serious, you will teach students who (also) are not serious - and for free.

I don't know about this being so true. What if it is a single parent, or one who gets paid weekly, and can't afford to cough up 4 lessons worth of money at a time?

I only ask because this is precisely my situation. There is no way my parents could pay $100 at the beginning of the month for my lessons, but paying the $25 every week is a little less damaging. My parent AND I are extremely serious about my musical studies. But they simply can't afford a large payment once a month.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:33 am**

Richardrichard9 wrote:
bloke wrote: - payment in advance for quite a few lessons: If the parents won't cough up some dough in advance, they aren't serious. If the parents aren't serious, you will teach students who (also) are not serious - and for free.
I don't know about this being so true. What if it is a single parent, or one who gets paid weekly, and can't afford to cough up 4 lessons worth of money at a time?

I only ask because this is precisely my situation. There is no way my parents could pay $100 at the beginning of the month for my lessons, but paying the $25 every week is a little less damaging. My parent AND I are extremely serious about my musical studies. But they simply can't afford a large payment once a month.

And this is probably more often than not, something to really consider.

You could put in the contract that the next weeks lesson is payed for at the current lesson. That way it's never too far ahead. And contract or no contract, there is difficulty in enforcing these agreements.

Making a syllabus is a good idea to give the parents your info and to help them understand you are a payed teacher and not a gift. However, the best way to make sure things go smoothly is to not be walked over. When you don't get payed, you don't teach. And if it happens more than once and things don't go smoothly, then don't teach the student. Even with a contact, you may still not be payed and the parent(s) may need a "reminder" of that "contract". So communication is the most important thing.

Most teachers I know who find themselves in these situations of conflict (often), tend to "complain" to me about the students/parents but don't communicate to the parents....so don't forget that.

Oh, something for the original poster

"I require payment for missed lessons without 24hrs. notice. If I or the student have to miss the scheduled lesson it will be made up at a mutaully convenient time."

This isn't necessarily a good thing...especially when teaching a young high schooler or so......as the real world dictates, people go away for vacations or get busy and have to cancel ahead of time. To make up these times may not be possible and so you shouldn't expect that the lessons will be "made up". Rather, offer it as an option but don't make it seem like it's required. These generally are younger students and not college students so you have to show a little leniency. ( a LITTLE

)

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:59 am**

I've tried these sorts of contracts in the past...in my opinion, they are as worthless as the piece of paper they are printed on. If your student or their parent doesn't pay you, there really isn't any recourse for you other than to drop them...and that's not so good for business. Teaching privately is always a risk.

I do recommend you put your policies on paper...if you want to call that a contract, no problem. The line about the student pays if they don't show and don't provide at least 24 hours notice is vital. Stick to this. Don't be the "nice guy" unless you enjoy teaching for free. I don't recommend including the line about make-ups. Simply don't miss.

It does seem rather stupid to me to include something about the student needing to practice in your policy sheet. Do you really think simply handing them a sheet that says they need to practice will make them do it? Those who are serious will practice and improve...those whose parents are making them take lessons will not and stay the same level. I find this is about 25-50% of my studio, and varies from year to year. The non-practicers are my favorite students to teach...they don't care, so they take very little mental effort.

Richard, you do realize paying for four lessons up front is the same amount of money as paying each week, don't you? It doesn't make sense to say your parent "can't afford it" up front or it's "less damaging" paid weekly. If you can't afford lessons that's one thing, but the payment method shouldn't make any difference...it's called budgeting. Besides, your credibility on the matter is a little suspect as someone who owns their own tuba in high school.

EDIT (someone *cough* *cough* posted just before me):

tubashaman wrote:All my students have shown success, top bands (and even first chair) in the middle school region...my student after a few months has always been first chair

You are so unbelievably arrogant...you have a serious psychological disorder, my friend. I sincerely hope you seek help.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:24 am**

James, keep the theory in the classroom.

I've been teaching privately for over 20 years, and I've never had a parent try to blame me for their child's lack of advancement. Of course you guide them on how much they need to practice, and (more importantly) how to practice effectively. Simply telling a student to practice 15 minutes a day is useless if they don't know how to practice.

I still boils down to how serious the student is. You can get the parent on your side, but if the student doesn't care all the practice in the world won't make them much better. If they do care, you won't need to encourage them to practice more. See how simple it is? Or do you just have really strange people down there in Texas?

Now, I just hit "submit" and saw your new post. You should always have the student pay before the lesson, not after. Don't waste your time on a kid who won't take your time seriously and pay for it. The last thing you need to do is get in a pissing match between the parent and kid...do you really think the parent won't claim that you took the money and are now saying you didn't get it? Please...

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:33 am**

bloke wrote:
Richardrichard9 wrote:
bloke wrote: - payment in advance for quite a few lessons: If the parents won't cough up some dough in advance, they aren't serious. If the parents aren't serious, you will teach students who (also) are not serious - and for free.
I don't know about this being so true. What if it is a single parent, or one who gets paid weekly, and can't afford to cough up 4 lessons worth of money at a time?

I only ask because this is precisely my situation. There is no way my parents could pay $100 at the beginning of the month for my lessons, but paying the $25 every week is a little less damaging. My parent AND I are extremely serious about my musical studies. But they simply can't afford a large payment once a month.
hogwash.

If they can afford four weekly payments, they can afford one monthly payment of the same amount. What about the light bill...Does your parent pay that weekly? (btw, I was - really - inferring a SEMESTER'S tuition, and not just one month.

If your parent REALLY has a problem with $100 - $125/mo. for some expense vs. $25 weekly, they ABSOLUTELY need to examine what's going on with the finances...and I'm not joking at all. Anyone who lives that "close to the edge" is going to have w-a-y too much stress in their live, and that is going to affect their quality of life...emotionally, spiritually...every way.

How much/mo. are you paying for internet? If a $100 - $125 monthly lessons payment would be a problem, how much easier would it be *without* high-speed internet? (Dial-up is only $10.) I get along with out "YouTube" just fine.

How often do you eat out (lunch OR dinner...including fast food)? Again, if $100/mo. is a problem, the answer SHOULD be - 0 -

If $100/mo. is a problem, are any/either of your family automobiles being paid for monthly, and did any of them cost more than $3000? If you have a car specifically for your use, should you go back to the bike, sell the car, and get off the insurance? Insurance costs a FORTUNE at your age and (even though I'm sure you strongly believe otherwise) you really don't need to be going many places.

Do you have cable TV...??

Is your thermostat below 79 right now?

Do you buy all new clothes? ...(Of course) I buy my socks, shoes, and underclothing *new*, but (believe it or not) I buy most of my other clothing used. I just bought a "new-looking" Made-in-Jamaica ski jacket (a REAL one...with some old lift tickets on one of the zippers...double-zipper, (part duck-down/part Thinsulate, btw) for $4. I'll use it this winter when I'm cutting wood for the fireplace (to keep my natural gas bill down). The coat is my size, and I'm about (judging from your picture) your size.

I'm dead serious about this stuff. I hope (if your parent is REALLY is in that serious sort of shape financially) they will consider the questions/answers above and check out the link (below).

http://www.daveramsey.com

Well, one of my parents, being disabled with Arnold Chiari malformation and a myriad of other diseases is out of work, forever. We incur thousands of dollars in medical bills for her a MONTH. From the dozens of tests she has a month, the over 30 surgeries she has had since my birth, and the doctor trips, which average 1-2 times a week.

We don't have air conditioning, in the winter our thermostat is usually at 65.

We have basic cable, which is bundled in with our internet and phone. We had dial-up for a while, but tended to hinder my school work (with emailing projects, seeing we lack a printer).

We don't eat out at all. The last time I saw a movie at the theater was Harry Potter, ONE!

We got our house (trailer) as an inheritance, our car, was believe it or not, free, and, our insurance, is $25 a month from Geico.

Most of my clothes are from the Thrift store.

We have a washer, but no dryer.

All this, and only one parent working. We virtually live off of my dad's paycheck at the beginning of the month. My mom gets a small (and I mean small) disability payment every week, which is where my lesson fee comes out of.

For me, it is either every week, or not at all.

My parent's inability to pay a lump sum once a month doesn't at all reflect their seriousness about my study, or my resultant seriousness. I take school, and the tuba, as my parents would expect me to, incredibly seriously. I want to get my education so I will have a better quality of life.

Anyone who lives that "close to the edge" is going to have w-a-y too much stress in their live, and that is going to affect their quality of life...emotionally, spiritually...every way.

Of course there is stress, unquestionably. When I need a, say $9 review book for school towards the end of the month, and my parents have to wait until we can afford it, yes stress is present. But I am relatively happy, most people who know me in person know that, and that I smile almost all the time. I have way too much to be thankful for to be depressed about my situation.

So yes, some people, me, actually do live like this. I am lucky I am even taking lessons.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:38 am**

Richard, with all seriousness, are you kidding?

How did you possibly afford that nice new horn you have? I surely hope you took our advice and leave it at home...what are you going to do if it does get damaged?

Just recently you were talking about getting a tandem bike for you and your sister to ride. Either you're overblowing the financial situation in your last post, or you're incredibly naive to think you could possibly afford something like that but can only pay for a tuba lesson every other week. What gives?

Best of luck to you.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:44 am**

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:Richard, with all seriousness, are you kidding?

How did you possibly afford that nice new horn you have? I surely hope you took our advice and leave it at home...what are you going to do if it does get damaged?

Just recently you were talking about getting a tandem bike for you and your sister to ride. Either you're overblowing the financial situation in your last post, or you're incredibly naive to think you could possibly afford something like that but can only pay for a tuba lesson every other week. What gives?

Best of luck to you.

Sadly enough... no...

I got the Tuba thanks to my Aunt.

And I do have an interview for a job at Wegmans coming up (a regional supermarket). That is where I was hoping for the money for the tandem, next year. That is also where I was hoping to help my parents, and pay for my own lessons. Until then, iff I get the job, a lot of things in my life seem to be conditional.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:48 am**

Wow...nice to have family that will buy a horn for you. My congratulations.

Wegmans surely isn't the only place you can work. Find a part-time (20 hours a week) job at around $6.50 an hour. On your W-4 claim no withholding from your pay...you won't make enough to need to worry about it. That's $260 every other week.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:52 am**

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:Wow...nice to have family that will buy a horn for you. My congratulations.

Wegmans surely isn't the only place you can work. Find a part-time (20 hours a week) job at around $6.50 an hour. On your W-4 claim no withholding from your pay...you won't make enough to need to worry about it. That's $260 every other week.

Haha, they are also the people that got us the car we own now, for nothing, truly amazing people they are.

I have applied for a job at everywhere in town, Wegmans is the only one who has considered me.

Isn't the min. wage something like $7.15 though?

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:08 am**

tubashaman wrote:Richard, im guessing your a HS senior.

I am going to say this because I have had a similar situation with my family:

IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY. If your aunt can buy a tuba for you, maybe she can help the situation.

If your still in HS, EVERYTHING YOU MAKE should go to private lessons, and a college savings fund. If you can hold a job 15 hours a week (i assume your in marching band) at around $6, thats about $80 a week, and once your done marching youll be able to work more (assuming your marching), and on breaks and summer you can get 40 hour weeks that can go to a college fund.

Are you going to go to college? Is there one within an hour from where you live. If you can commute and live at home, that has a decent program, your going to save alot. Based on my scholarships and grants, my tuition here (and books i guess) are free. Heres what costs: FOOD AND HOUSING. Combined, they have been about $7000 a year, plus those little fees that add up over a while like transcript fees, but food and housing cost the most. Im sure if there is a university near and your good and such, you will get scholarships, and if you live off campus you probably wont havet o pay much or take out much in loans if needed (esp if it is a state school). This way, you can continue to keep your job probably as well

The best few music schools in distance order from my house are:

Eastman
Ithaca College
and SUNY Potsdam.

I am considering Ithaca and Potsdam. Neither of them are really within driving distance of my house. With my financial situation, and my grades (all but my SAT, which doesn't truly reflect my grades) I don't expect to pay much for tuition. But I would rather get a great education and pay a bunch in student loans than get a worse one and pay little to nothing. I know some people who will disagree with that however.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:09 am**

tubashaman can I ask you a serious question?

Why do you still post on this forum when you know that the members disagree with everything that you say and argue that every post that you make is invalid?

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:11 am**

Minimum wage is $6.55 an hour...that's what you'll make in a part-time temporary job.

I'm really confused now...looking at your post history, you said your parents bought you the tuba back in November. They also bought you a mouthpiece for getting into the Honor Society. And somehow you came up with $20 for a router on eBay. And you wanted to know where you could buy some music for an odd ensemble recently.

Also, looking at your post history, it is difficult to give you advice since every possible solution offered is met with another excuse. Therefore, I will be giving up trying to help now. Good luck to you.

Oh, and as long as I'm giving advice you won't use...sell the tuba if you're in that much difficulty. I have bachelors and masters degrees in tuba performance, and I've never owned my own horn. Never. It can be done with no problems at all, even here in little old Oklahoma and a very fine program like the University of Kansas. Also, did you ever sell that very expensive violin you don't need?

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:20 am**

In NY the min wage seems to be a bit higher.

http://www.labor.state.ny.us/workerprot ... nwage.shtm" target="_blank

As for my parents buying the tuba, you think I am proud of their financial situation? My Aunt bought it as sort of a "pity" gift because we couldn't afford one.

And, in this topic, I don't remember asking for help. I was just explaining a situation to people where a monthly fee might not be possible.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:41 am**

Richardrichard9 wrote:My parent's inability to pay a lump sum once a month doesn't at all reflect their seriousness about my study, or my resultant seriousness. I take school, and the tuba, as my parents would expect me to, incredibly seriously. I want to get my education so I will have a better quality of life.

If you want a better quality of life, and you should, then relegate that tuba to recreation and get your education in something that will actually lead to a career that pays well. The odds are against you making a decent living from that tuba.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:26 am**

Why did you start this thread? You seem to already know what you want to say to your students. Your policies are your business, and you can do what you want. But it seems silly to ask for advice and then refute every chunk you get in return. It seems more like you are just bragging about how great you think your students are and how awesome your approach and policies are. At the end of the day, who freaking cares. If you want the opinions of the people here, shut up and listen to it. You don't have to argue how right you are. You can start a new thread... "My private lesson policies are better than yours" and then you can fight them about that. Man, I thought this thread would lead to something worthwhile. Boy was I wrong. Goodbye last 8 minutes of my life.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:58 am**

wow this post escalated....as usual eh?....*sigh...

I would say though, that payments policies are the business of the teacher. If he/she wishes to do lump sums, then do it. But I don't recommend it. Payment for the next week lesson at the current lesson will suffice.

You're a tuba teacher....so don't try and save the world. We teach because we enjoy, but ALSO (and don't forget it) because we get PAID! (money....mr green....

)

And let me say this, NOONE should speculate and criticize anyones financial situation. Even if it is poor budgeting or something wrong with the family, if they can't pay all up front per month and that is against your policy, then don't take that student. Simple enough.

If you can arrange something with the family and it's in your hearts nature, then do it. But it's your business.

The point is, there are different situations with different people, and us teachers will handle it differently. The main thing to make sure of is, that you don't teach for free. So do what you have to do.

so.....why don't we all just go PLAY our tubas?

Brooke "who thinks this little emoticons light up the mood, when really it shouldn't get this argumentative in the first place which is why I'm rambling and writing this long run on sentence because he has nothing better to do at 10 am but drink coffee and argue on tubenet before who goes and practices a bit" Pierson

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:02 am**

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:55 am**

There are no guarantees in anything, but let me add one more opinion that if you follow bloke's advice, there is a . . . good . . . chance that years from now, you may be able to realize how your life, family, finances, etc. are better off from having done that.

Edit - my comment relates to bloke's first advice. I have no experiences or knowledge on which I could base an opinion on the second advice, except that the few individuals I have known who went to West Point ended up in very good careers.

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