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I am looking to buy a new horn, and I was wondering what everyone thinks is the best all around horn for the money. I would be using it for quintet, solo, and ensemble playing.
Your opinions would be appreciated very much.

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Current Level?

Preferred key?

Playing goals?

Amount of money available?

Preferred sound?

Preferred valve mechanism?

sorry, I should have provided more information.
I have a Bachelor's degree in music performance, and completed part of a master's degree. I just joined the Navy as a musician. I have a lot of playing experience in all types of ensembles. Orchestras, wind ensembles, brass quintets, tuba-euphonium quartets, brass choirs, etc.
I am looking for a new horn because my PT-20 was involved in a fire and could not be salvaged.
Just before I joined the Navy I sold my F tuba, so I have experience on F as well as CC.
I am looking for a horn that would be suitable for many types of situations whether it be a large F horn or a smaller CC tuba. I am looking to spend around 5-8k on a horn.
I'm just looking for ideas from others with experience with many horns because I have mainly played on 1 horn for the past several years.

All right, let's take a standard piece from each genre you listed.

Solo- RVW Concerto
BQ- Ewald #1
Band- Lincolnshire Posy
Orch- Meistersinger Overture

On one horn, you'll probably have do play all of these (or something like them), at possibly any given point in time, maybe on the same day (university chair placements)...

Buying an F/Eb might make your solos/etudes in you weekly lessons easier, but when you have to auditon for band and orchestra eash semester/year, playing low (and louder) will be more difficult and you just won't get that 'big horn' sound down low.

However, if playing in orchestra and band is what makes you 'tingle', then get a CC and understand that solos and high stuff will take more work.

So you want a horn that can do it all, for a decent price (used)? I'm assuming you want a professional horn with 5 valves...

F tubas-
Yamaha 822, MW 45SLP, Willson 3200

Eb tubas-
Besson 983, MW 2141, Willson 3400

CC tubas-
Mirafone 186/188, MW 2145/2155/2000, HB 2/2P/20/21, Getzen (Canadian Brass) 50, PT 3/4/20/606,

I didn't list: Small bass tubas (with a problematic low 'C'), and 5/4-6/4 contrabass tubas CC's.

The F/Eb's will sound lighter and will probably be easier to play (up high); and the CC's should sound better and play easier down low (in the $$$ register).

Ask anybody who only has a 3/4 F or a 5/4 CC, how they feel when/if the above entioned list must be played on only that (one) horn.

Most players will probably say get a good 4/4 CC, get used to it, play the sh*t out of it and then purchase another horn where you think there is a 'gap' that NEEDS to be filled. For 99% of tuba players, this is the probably best course of action.

Is this the road I chose? No. Would I do it again? Yes.

Every player is different, just as their situation is different. Buy the horn that helps you do what you need to do(what your playing situation is), and practice.

EDIT:

I'm guessing you aren't the only player in your Navy band. You can 'probably' get away with any tuba in there; providing it sounds good- so get whatever horn you want.

Just keep in mind one day somebody the bottom part might be sick, so you'll have to play it- on whatever horn you have on your lap that morning.

the elephant wrote:With your currently provided information every answer you receive in this thread will be, at best, a WAG.

I'll put in the first WAG:

Standard answer: Mira 186 either BBb or CC. Reputation to be consistent, reliable and having good intonation. Plentiful on the used market, a little higher priced than some on the new market. From what many have said here, you might not be in love with it but you won't hate it.

You should take a look at the Besson 995 CC that's listed in the For Sale section. Very nice horn

Thanks for all the replies. Any more opinions would be greatly appreciated.

I second the Miraphone 186. It's reputation is, I believe, well deserved. I think it works the BEST as a wind ensemble horn, but it certainly does the job in other ensembles. Probably the most trouble I've had with playing a 186 in varying ensembles in in a brass quintet. I really had to watch myself that I didn't drown out the other fellows, but after a few rehearsals, it was all fine. I also used a 186 in a small-med. sized orchestra last year playing pieces with some pretty hefty parts (Chabrier "Espana" and Borodin "Polovetsian Dances") and I did not get any "MORE MORE MORE" from the director, nor did I get a time-out for playing too loud (even when the bass trombonist and I made a pact to "split the atoms in the air" in the Borodin...).

What are your thoughts on the Yamaha 822F? I've played on a couple and the low register was amazing on both of them. Do you think this horn would be a good horn for both small and large ensemble playing?

The 822F is a great horn for most situations, but I wouldn't bring it into a band rehearsal (especially if there is only one or two tubists in the ensemble) nor would I use it for big orchestral lit with a medium-large sized orchestra. It is a great horn for quintet, quartet, random small ensembles, and lighter orchestral rep. It just depends on what kind of playing you are going to do.

Just curious as to why you wouldn't take the 822 into a band rehearsal.

I'll put in a plug for the Miraphone 188. I love mine and haven't found anything that it can't do. It continues to provide excelent service in a variety of situations.

I know it sounds like a sale's pitch, but I really like it.

Not because I have one, but, %@**!+, it really is true:

186

fatemokid wrote:Just curious as to why you wouldn't take the 822 into a band rehearsal.

Well, I am not the original poster, but there is a sort of stigma in bringing an F tuba into a wind ensembler/band rehearsal.

Hard for me to address it, because I think it really comes down to what sounds the best. I'm sure many think that blend is very difficult in a setting like that.

Part of the stigma is just the fact that for most bands, if you bring a small to medium bore F, they're going to blink and wonder if it is a tuba, and not a euph.

The second issue is support of the band. If it's a sizable ensemble, but with very few tubas, it may not support the band. OK, I'll get arguments and discussions on that one, but so be it.

Even in the UK there are less and less tubists using an Eb and going to the CC as the all-round tuba.

From the brief time I had with it, I am inclined to add a Nirschl WN-15 to the list of all-round tubas. Maybe one day I'll get some more time with one.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the 1291 yet, but it is also one the best (in my opinion) all-around tubas. Everyone is spot on with the 186/188 or Yamaha 822. All are great tubas, and you will most likely love them all. Make sure you test them out, and pick the one best for YOU. Good luck!

Why don't you just get another PT-20? They are fine all around tubas.

Jonathan "who actually has a PT-20 for sale"

fatemokid wrote:What are your thoughts on the Yamaha 822F? I've played on a couple and the low register was amazing on both of them. Do you think this horn would be a good horn for both small and large ensemble playing?

Looks, plays, and sounds like a small-medium CC tuba. Low register is big, but of course will have that pedal "growl" that you won't get on a contrabass tuba in similar range. IMHO it could probably work in all but the biggest ensembles, or where they wanted a "big fat bottom" aka Holton BAT or Conn 20J. However, those horns don't come cheap, and you could probably find a used BBb and Eb for the price of one used 822.

For your budget you can get a used kalison BAT (or other nice contrabass)and a decent used f.I hope to never have only one tuba again...

If your definition of all around is anything from strolling dixieland trios at the auto auction to playing in an orchestra my input is the following.Not too big, not too small. Too big will swamp a quintet or destroy your back on strolling jobs. Too small will be lost in the din of a bigger group, Front action valves,most of your collegues will expect the bell to face left. As far as particular horns, although people keep trying to use F's for all around stuff I've never heard one work well in an orchestra except for Berlioz, but we're talking All Around horns here. The big Wilson Eb could do everything credibly.The Meinl Weston 2145 is a Cthat would work in anything.Let me insert here that as an "all around" player you aren't working in a major symphony which does have more specific requirements.The King Bb's, old style or new are terrific all around horns. The old style ones also have the bell options of 22 in. bell front, 22in.raincatcher, 19 in. raincatcher or a cut down to 16 in. like the Bell model C's had, One horn, lots of sound variations. Or as mentioned earlier the Mirafone 186 C or Bb.I also think that playing one horn makes you into a more secure player with regard to confort in resonse and pitch and as an "all around" player you work with alot of different people, not the sams bass bone player for 30 tears. Hope reading this was not a waste of your time. Ed