TubeNet

Hello everyone,
I'm looking for some information on the PT-10P F tuba. I wanted to know how this horn compares to its rotor valve brother and other F tubas out there. I have looked through some old tubenet stuff but there is almost nothing on the PT-10P.
Thanks in advance.

I'll chime in here as I spent some time on both these instruments when I chose my rotary PT10. In my opinion, there is an "across the board" similarity among all piston F tubas.......better low register than a rotary F tuba, weightier sound, bad pitch, "whoo-y"/hollow sound in the upper register (C above the staff and up).

I think piston F tubas have a honeymoon period for anyone who has spent time on a rotary version (especially if they play a piston CC/Bb). This is usually due to the response (especially in the low register).

All that said, the difference between the piston and rotary PT10 for me was this:

The rotary version had MUCH better pitch and a clearer sound, especially above the staff. Although there are two notes that feel a little stuffy on these instruments (D and Db just below the staff), the rest of the instrument just sings. From the players perspective, most notes below the staff feel like they have a slight tonal change leaning toward edginess. However, I have found through many playing tests that this tonal change does not transfer to the listener. *Read Bloke's post about low register issues on a rotary F tuba. In my opinion, too many players play with slow air AND too relaxed of an embourchure. Yes, the air is slower in that register, but that doesn't mean let your corners become all loose and saggy.

The piston PT10 has a weightier sound and seemed to "pop" in it's responsiveness. However, the upper register just would not repsond as quick, the sound was hollow, and the pitch was flat. Also, a glaring issue became very aparent when this instrument was put on a tuner. Just like a 45slp I used to own (and all piston F tubas I have played), this horn had tuning issues at EVERY OPEN OCTAVE! All 4 open "F's" were in different spots (when played in the center) and all three open "C's" were in different spots. This was just the beginning, as more funkiness was found throughout the horn. If you think this was due to mouthpiece choice, I have one response.....BS.

Many players buy piston tubas for the reason that they feel it's a similar "feel" to their CC tuba and they won't have to practice as much. I went through this thought scenario. Maybe the feel is the same, but if you don't practice and learn the intonation tendencies, good luck pleasing the members of the ensemble you're performing with.

All that said, when I have played both a piston or rotary F tuba for other brass players, there tends to be an ever so slight preference for the piston version. However, when the same brass player PLAYS ALONG with me, there is a hands down preference for the rotary for one simple reason....clearer center and better pitch. If I was to ever buy another piston F tuba, I would buy a 45slp again for one simple reason...it's the cheapest to find a good one used. Piston F tubas all kind of sound the same to me anyway and have the same issues, so why not save some dough.

I own a pt-10p have owned a pt-16 and a yfb-621 and used the 45-slp for sometime in my undergraduate studies. My "honeymoon period" has ended and I can't get enough of my 10p. The low register is open and full, cash register is silky smooth, the upper register well it just melts you from the inside out. ( Plus there are no intonation problems) But then again all my tubas did that! On a serious note I think with time and effort you can make any bad note a warm centered full open note. I tend to get the same sound from horn to horn so I don't perfer piston over rotary I just play what works for me. I guess the rotary horns seem to work out for james. If you have decided on an F and can't decide to go with rotary or piston then make sure you spend enough time with each and ask yourself what are the pros and cons of each tuba. But those pros and cons have to be about your playing not anyone elses. Good luck on finding a tuba.

james wrote

Just like a 45slp I used to own (and all piston F tubas I have played), this horn had tuning issues at EVERY OPEN OCTAVE! All 4 open "F's" were in different spots (when played in the center) and all three open "C's" were in different spots. This was just the beginning, as more funkiness was found throughout the horn. If you think this was due to mouthpiece choice, I have one response.....BS.

While I agree that my Mirafone 180 F has many tuning issues (to say the least), I feel mouthpiece choice greatly effects intonation throughout the range of the instrument. I have tried a Shilke HII F, LM-7, LM-15, PT-64 and JK 6D before settling on the MF4. Each mouthpiece had it advantages and disadvantages, but I felt the MF4 had the most consistency (got all the notes close enough to the point of possible lipping) throughout the range of that little tuba.

To clear up any misconceptions, when I test instruments for intonation, I do the following:
First I tune F in the staff (or C in the staff on a C tuba). Then I let the guy who tags along (another pro player) hold the tuner. I don't look at the tuner from there on. I then play every note in the center and my friend makes note of the tendencies. We then switch places and do the same thing. The test was also recorded on my mini-disc player.

On the day I was at Custom Music there were three PT10p's (two laquer and one silver). I used a PT64 mouthpiece ,which was my regular mouthpiece at the time and the one Mr. Perantoni highly recommended for that instrument. The results were similar on all three instruments played and for both players.

The "mouthpiece choice being BS" comment by me was regarding this trial, not a blanket statement. I do question a mouthpiece being able to make a 20 cent difference though......MAYBE 5 cents.

-james

Thus the highly effective and lucrative endorsement industry...