Classical music = Sinking ship

[Leland]

I wouldn't know where to begin, other than just saying that musical tastes change whether we like it or not. It's not "cool" these days to attend something that appears to be the realm of the upper crust of society, whether it's really that way or not.

Attempts to make classical music "hip" don't appear to be successful at all, either.

If I didn't know the musicians myself, I'd think that orchestras just don't have fun playing classical music. They never seem to smile, they only seem to "get into it" by bobbing & weaving dramatically in their seats (mainly the strings), and when they're done, they merely look relieved -- if they show any emotion at all.

Maybe it's the appearance of being serious about music, when really, it's just music, which is supposed to be fun. Working seriously to make sure it's done right is, of course, an integral part. But, to perform "in a serious manner", making it a presentation rather than showing it off, is just a turnoff for most.

The Canadian Brass got into the mainstream not only because their performance quality is seriously good, but because they take music lightly, and appear to be having fun playing.

[Shockwave]

There is a lot of surviving classical music because it was written down on paper, but the vast majority of it is just not very enjoyable. The good pieces have been so over-performed that they aren't enjoyed as much as they could be. There are also good pieces for one instrument or ensemble that haven't been performed by other instruments or types of ensembles.

Face it, the state of performance entertainment has gone far, far, far beyond opera, ballet, symphony, concerto, and whatnot from ages past. That's progress. Maybe there are ways to combine the good old pieces of music with modern instruments, visual presentation, and performance flair that would actually get people interested. My friend played trumpet in that stage show "Blast" and it seemed to be a very successful venture. They played classical type music like Bolero, Simple Gifts, and the Kenton version of Malaguena.

The only time I really enjoy traditional, old fashioned music is if the ensemble is on period instruments and in period costumes. Civil War bands are a kick because the sound and the look are so different. To me, all orchestras sound and look alike and I don't care enough about the subtle differences to pay attention to them.

The modern music industry has learned a lot about how to keep people interested in music, and the first thing they learned is that in order for people to listen to the same piece twice, it has to be changed in some noticeable way. You won't find Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra each giving their best rendition of the same arrangement of the same tune. Maynard Ferguson didn't play the same version of MacArthur Park as Simon and Garfunkel but chances are the CSO plays the same version of Pictures at an Exhibition as the BSO even though there are many. That's boring.

When I put together a group, 90% of the work is in arranging the music in some original way so that people can hear something they haven't heard before.

-Eric

[Normal]

It is not just the large classical groups that are loosing patrons and support. As I look around the audiences at my community band concerts, most of the people are over the age of 65. At least those who are not family members. I am afraid that in ten years we will loose a large part of the audience for natural reasons.

I agree somewhat with Eric. Somehow the music we play needs to attract middle aged to younger people. Also if we do things that attract the youngest generations (5 - 12) their parents would have to come too. The type of music we play might be the key. A mix of popular with some of the older good pieces might help attract people. These means we need good arrangements of popular music.

I also think we could start to attracting people to instrumental music by starting them listening to small groups in venues other then concert halls. Groups the size of Dixieland groups playing arrangements of popular music might beginho to attract people. The problem is w do you arrange popular music without it sounding like elevator music.

[Shockwave]

I'm talking about arranging classical music so it sounds more appealing, though not to the extent of "A 5th of Beethoven". For instance I'm working right now on an arrangement of a Franck organ piece for 6 electrified brass.

Popular musicians can add style to classical music, but classical musicians can only subtract style from popular music and there's not much more than style keeping it afloat! Pop - style = Muzak!

-Eric

[joebob]

I actually think that the future of classical music/orchestras might be very bright. I've read countless articles about how the amount of retirees is going to rise exponentially over the next decade or two (these articles are generally dealing with the problem of the retirees/worker ratio in social security). Retirees are the mainstay of orchestra patrons. They have the time and money to go to orchestra concerts, and they also generally tend to be the ones who volunteer for orchestra boards. If the main demographic of orchestra patrons is growing to never before seen levels, maybe this will be good for orchestas as well.

[Shockwave]

You get what you pay for.

-Eric

[sloan]

90% of everything is crap.

If 5-6 years spent getting a music degree has brought you to the point that you don't like a lot of what you listen to, then perhaps those years were well spent.

Classics are, in general, "better" than contemporary music because the classics have survived the filter of time. Count the number of composers you can name. Count the number of years that have gone by. Now, consider how many composers there must have been (who you have never heard of).

Previous generations sacrificed their ears so that you could enjoy 'the classics". Now it's time for you to put in some time filtering today's music for the sake of tomorrow's listeners.

Only, please remember that your opinions, just like everything else, are subject to the observation that:

"90% of everything is crap".

[Chuck(G)]

We don't live in Bach's, Beethoven's or even Stravinsky's world any more.

At one time, music was a "special" experience where one's ears couild hear a work afresh whenever it was played. Today, we are bombarded wtih talk, music, opinion (some call it "news") and all sorts of sensory garbage. Nothing is special anymore--a musical performance is just another blade of grass in the lawn of sensory overload.

Do you remember the first time you heard "The Firebird" or the third Brandenburg? Probably not. What was the last movie you saw that didn't have a musical soundtrack?

If our food were comprised of nothing but caviar, truffles and chocolate, we'd soon get tired of eating those items. Variety makes for interest and excitement. With overexposure, anything becomes mundane.

A friend holds the opinion that a radio station playing classical music is the worst use of the medium. He thinks that unless an audience hears a live performance, classical music loses its "specialness". Otherwise, you're listening to one of a countless number of recordings of say, Beethoven 5. Oh God, how boring...call center hold music...

This is the world we live in; and I don't know how to fix it.

[sloan]

I disagree.

Treating music as a "special occasions only" experience is precisely the sort of thing that kills it (esp. "classical" music)

Read the program notes for any modern "symphony orchestra". You'll be astounded by how much of the music (usually the "rest of the program" surrounding the main event) was written originally as incidental or background music (not unlike today's film scores). Precious little of it was originally intended to be heard by a large room of dressed-up pillars of the community listening carefully to a "major musical experience".

Granted, much of the symphony-sized pieces were written for that sort of attention. But, the rest was intended to accompany dance, theater, church services, and fireworks

Preservation Societies are useful (perhaps even necessary) - but not everything presented today by a Preservation Society was originally intended to be heard that way.

If *more* people listened routinely to a classical music radio station in the background of their daily lives, perhaps there would be a larger, more discerning audience for contemporary art music..

[funkcicle]

Whether classical music is dying or not shouldn't really matter. There's a lot of great music out there, classical and non. What makes classical so special? Nothing. The attitude that it IS special is the reason it's on the decline.

There are people who love music, and then there are people who love "their" music. The people who love music will always have infinite musical sources from which to find enjoyment. Those who choose to limit themselves will always have infinite reasons to complain about how "their" music is the underdog.

[Jeff Miller]

Hi. My dogmatic music manifesto follows. I realise that these are my opinions, so I've neglected to put in as many "I think"s and "In my opinion"s as I should have.

I think that the way to address this situation is to promote live music of all kinds in public places. By live music, I mean ANY kind of music. I do a lot of educational gigs in schools, and I can see that the kids (and thus the society of today and tomorrow) largely think that music is an inanimate product made by machines. The kids I see largely do not know that music is created by other human beings breathing into or beating on various funky looking contraptions that they have only seen in cartoons.

By "machines" I am not having a dig at synths, etc. What I mean is that our commercialised society has turned music into a commodity. People think of music in the same way that they think of a can of beans. Ask a 6 year old kid where beans or steak comes from, and they'll probably say "the store". Ask them where water comes from. They'll say "the faucet". Ask them where music comes from, and most will say "a cd" or maybe "a stereo".

This commercialisation takes the human connection out of music. It becomes a passive thing, like wallpaper, not a conversation or expression of thought and emotion transferred from one person to another.

The only way to redress this, in my opinion, is to infiltrate society with live music. If you have a band, chamber group, bluegrass combo, acoustic rap act, etc, contact your local shopping mall. Ask if you can do a free gig one day. Contact your local restauant or bar. Offer to come and play for free occasionally. Take your stuff, go out on the street during a busy shopping day or rush hour, and play some music.

And most importantly, contact your local school and offer to come and play your instrument or sing your stuff LIVE in front of a bunch of kids who may have NEVER seen an actual person making music in front of them.

This is how we can foster an environment that relates to music and appreciates and thus supports it.

If we don't keep the grassroots going, then nothing will save classical music.

In closing, ask yourself this - what if you took 1% of the time you spend surfing the Internet each year, and devoted it to going out and playing live for free in public? How many people would you touch?

End of Manifesto.

Thanks for reading,

Jeff

[MileMarkerZero]

I also think a lot of the decline in the popularity of classical music has to do with the modern MTV attention-span. Music expresses feelings and emotions, and the feelings and emotions expressed by classical music are much more subtle than listening to a rapper snarl some kind of filthy phrase. The impact is immediate; you don't have to think about the intent. There's no gray area; the artist's intent is obvious, unlike classical music where most of the emotional language is very much open to interpretation. Most people don't have the time or inclination to learn the basic story sketch of Gotterdammerung in order to understand what's happening musically.

Music has gone the way of all the other popular cultural genres. Even television. Nobody watches old Honeymooners episodes anymore, but Jackie Gleason was a comic genius in those old shows. But there's no shock value, there's subtlety, there's decency and that's not what our WWF society wants.

What classical music has to do is to adapt. Nothing says that a visual component can't be added to "dumb down" the message. Not that the audience is dumb, they just want to be spoon-fed, whether they'll admit that or not. Somehow classical music needs to get into the business of instant mass gratification.

[TonyTuba]

If I didn't know the musicians myself, I'd think that orchestras just don't have fun playing classical music. They never seem to smile, they only seem to "get into it" by bobbing & weaving dramatically in their seats (mainly the strings), and when they're done, they merely look relieved -- if they show any emotion at all.

Maybe it's the appearance of being serious about music, when really, it's just music, which is supposed to be fun. Working seriously to make sure it's done right is, of course, an integral part. But, to perform "in a serious manner", making it a presentation rather than showing it off, is just a turnoff for most.

.

I will start with this, and move on to other points...


I don't think it is entirely fair to blame the current orchestral and performing classical musicians for appearing bored or failing to get into their music as the reason classical music is being shifted away. I disagree, also. You would have to attend a few concerts to see this. I know a lot, and play with them some, and this simply is not the case.

It is important to remember, playing in an orchestra is a job. I am sure every industry has people working in it that can't seem to smile at the end of the day of work, and I am sure that after work is done, you want to get home as soon as possible, too. The burden of the success of classical music does not land on the shoulders of our current orchestral plays, solely.

It is also worth mentioning...Have you ever played a mahler symphony, or strauss tone poem, with a major symphony? If you did, I bet you would not be all smiles the whole time, either. its your job to perform the music. The audience has paid to hear you perform the music well, or flawlessly in many cases. I am sorry, but this is hard to do, and not everyone can do it. I am lucky I get the chance to try sometimes, and I do my best, but these guys that do it all the time have my deepest respect.

Do I go to schools? yes. Do I direct a high school brass band for virtually no money? yes. I consider myself to be a classical musician, albeit an unemployed one. I think it is worth mentioning, that orchestral musicians have less time to do these volunteer things. have you seen the schedules these guys have to keep? You do it and see if you have time to crap everyday. it is also worth mentioning that most fo these things like school visits and things, you can get payed to do. This is yet another way to earn as a classically trained musician. How often to IT professioanls go into the school and fix computers and school network problems for free?

Everyone bears the burden, if there actually is a burden. Pop culture and stupid people are the problem these days. You have to do what you can do in your hole of society. inspire the people you can inspire, educate the people you can educate.

In a perfect society, it would be nice for the musicians to go to support other musicians. it happens. Only time allows it. Art takes time. When I have time, I go to the symphony, I go to high school band concerts, I see concerts of groups that travel into town for an engagement. if I have to work that night, that takes precedence, same as it would for all of us. A lot of times, professioanl musicians cant go out to support the arts because they are working creating it.

[sloan]

I also think a lot of the decline in the popularity of classical music has to do with the modern MTV attention-span.

Please remind me...what evidence is there that there has been a "decline in the popularity of classical music"?

I'm not at all sure that there *has* been such a decline.

There may not be as much interest/support as you would like, and there may be competition - but from where I sit (and occasionally try to play), the interest level is no less that it was 40 years ago.

[andrew the tuba player]

Ok. I know this post is like....3 years old now...But i have a few things to add.
First, i think that one reason that classical music isnt as popualar as the other genres is that its to 'perfect'. I think that we as muicians (and i do it to) get caught just reading the notes. When, really the music isnt on a page...Theres a little story to go with this that ive told many people...A professional tubist walks into the room and plays a song perfectly...No cracked notes, no rythem problems..Just directly off the page. Then, a boy walks in and plays it...He cracks a few notes here and there and messes up a few rythems...Execusion could be better...But, he put spirit in it...He felt the message of the song and played it...I beleive he is the better musician...I think as a musician my job is to take a piece of music and make my instrument an attachment of my body...To make others feel the emotion of the song. To be able to control they're emotions with the music...Even if it means adding things or takeing things out... And i dont think that many of the musicians today do that...like was said, its a job...But, music has to have emotion...Otherwise, its just a buch of sounds that are put togather to form a harmony. Harmony sounds good. But, harmony without spirit will fall to the floor. Sadly all the rappers that the string nasty phrases mean them. And, that maybe why socity tends to lean towards them. Music is expressive. If you dont feel what youre expressing its almost like lyeing. Ive done a test. I played a song...Twice in a row while someone listened .It was a slow sad sounding song. The first time i played it by the book...The second ime i took a minute to think...To think about something sad. When i played it again with those thoughts flowing through the song, i almost made the person listening cry. And ill admit...I did. Its amazeing what a few seconds can do. So, i think if we add feeling and spirit to it then more people will like it. And im not trying to brag. I'll admit. I get lost on the page to.
Second, you were right that people look bored when they play. I know that some of the music isnt very fun, but its back to the mood thing. If youre bored, then the music will be boreing too. Thats all there is to it. You gotta find something to pump you back up.
If you cant tell, i think that music is very much a phycological (pardon the spelling ) thing and that if you dont get into it, then it wont reach out to people. And if it doesnt reach and pull, then theyll leave.

[LoyalTubist]

Maybe I am a musical purist. Maybe it's just the fact that the tuba didn't hit the scene until 1835. But I don't like classical music! I had to memorize the scores and sound of all of Beethoven's nine symphonies in college. On a conducting scholarship in grad school and a conducting grad assistantship, I had to conduct many, many pieces by Haydn, Mozart, and early Beethoven, as well as others from the classical period.



For me, the good music didn't start until it got some hair on it with the addition of the tuba during the romantic period. Pioneer composer Hector Berlioz got it right by using as many tubas as he could use.



Back when I played with a symphony on a regular basis, I watched the audiences. Most of them had my same reaction to the classical composers' music that I have even today (ho-hum).



But play something by a romantic composer and everyone takes notice.



Maybe the only reason why I have some liking to music of the baroque period is because Leopold Stokowski did some very clever arrangements of the music of J.S. Bach (which all included tuba parts, judging from the orchestras I played with).



I don't even call it classical music, unless it was composed before 1820...

[MartyNeilan]

Nobody watches old Honeymooners episodes anymore, but Jackie Gleason was a comic genius in those old shows. But there's no shock value, there's subtlety, there's decency and that's not what our WWF society wants.

Threatening to beat up your wife ever week is subtle and decent??


Marty "who understands the point Steve is trying to make"

[Rick Denney]

Treating music as a "special occasions only" experience is precisely the sort of thing that kills it (esp. "classical" music)

Taking this theme and combining it with a couple of others, one of the things that occurs to me is that classical music performance has been targeted to the older audiences, and has specifically ignored trends among younger folks. And I'm putting the dividing line at about age 65.

For example, when I first went into consulting in Dallas, 14 years ago, I immediately went out and spent $2000 on suits. I wore suits to the office every day after that, because that's what we wore. Previously, in government, I'd worn slacks and dress shirts, but that wasn't quite good enough for consultants.

I'm still a consultant, but I wear jeans to the office now. I attended a conference in California last week, and the dressiest I got was a pair of dockers and a Hawaiian shirt. I only wear suits for client meetings Back East now, and usually my clients are not wearing them.

The entire culture has undergone a top-to-bottom transformation to less formality and more familiarity. 30 years ago, it was common to wear a tuxedo on fairly routine social occasions. Now, when I'm at a position in life where I might attend such occasions, the only time my tux comes out of the closet is when I need a musician costume. No wonder people don't attend concerts on impulse--the dress code, the parking, the ticketing, and so on all point to Something Serious.

Maybe what we need is to get rid of so much formality. I believe that serious orchestral music itself is still vibrant even to regular folks--else they would complain about it. They certainly hear it often enough--it forms the soundtrack to most movies. And they certainly seem to enjoy it at outdoor concerts, etc. Good music will win them over, but they may not be prepared for all the hullabaloo of live orchestral performance.

And I hope that we have finally abandoned the hostility that many composers felt for "common" listeners. Many attempted to be different or to violate "the rules" merely to be different or rebellious, and in so doing created a new set of rules just as rigid as the old ones. In their hopes of achieving a certain level of sophistication, they have alienated those who perceive that they have been slighted. People are sensitive to such slights, true or not. That doesn't mean we have to only play old war horses, and it certainly does not mean that we have to play orchestral arrangements of pop music (that would be disastrous), but it does mean we have to be mindful of audience reaction. I'm convinced that some composers hoped for and aimed for the collective audience groan.

If we are true to the orchestral art and and play what we truly enjoy rather than what merely impresses us as musicians, then I believe that's our best hope to reach new audiences.

It may not work, even if it's properly attempted. Thus, I think a little caution on the part of training musicians is completely warranted. But don't confuse education with job training. Keep the education broad and it will give you the tools needed to live a satisfying life. That assumes, of course, that your definition of "satisfying" has a solution.

Rick "wondering why concert arrangements of soundtracks never appear on classical orchestral programs" Denney

[TubaRay]

Rick "wondering why concert arrangements of soundtracks never appear on classical orchestral programs" Denney

I have wondered about this, too. This is a significant amount of truly wonderful music to be found, here. I suspect part of the reason for this can be found in traditional attitudes toward classical music and the role of the symphony orchestra.

[Donn]

the dress code

My lady friend from Houston was a little apprehensive on the way to attending a Seattle Symphony concert. According to her, in Houston, it would be a gross and conspicuous breach of protocol to attend a symphony concert in casual attire. Here, you don't have to wear casual attire if you don't want to, but you'll have plenty of company if you do. (Time for the semi-annual West Coast degeneracy topic?)