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I was asked to coach a very fine player several years ago and was struck by how much he pulled his first valve slide. I would guess that he was pulling it at least three inches. I asked him if he needed to pull out that far, he said yes and I let it go. He sounded fine, he won the audition but I've been thinking about it since.

Not full time, just occassionally (in case you wonder if I have anything else to think about).

So my question is this: How drastic would you consider it if you had to pull your main tuning slide out three inches (adding six inches to the total length of your horn)?

So, I am curious as to what you think and have been taught. Do we consider pulling three inches on the first valve tuning slide a necessary but minor issue? Do we really need to pull the first valve slide out three inches?

Don't confuse the issue with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (5th?) valve pulling. Let's just talk about first valve pulling, please.

I won't be able to check in next week so don't even bother to flame me on this. Save that for pm's.

I think you do what you must to make music. How much a slide is pulled, or if an individual pulls no slides at all, is incosiquential if it makes the music better and the player is willing and able to do it. It's all about the music.

OTOH, if you the player is unwilling or unable to make those kinds of necessary (psychological or actual) adjustments, it's up to the player to find another instrument or just live with the imperfections.

My $0.02.

My primary instrument is the trombone. I've learned there are no fixed positions and that you have to position the slide in such a way that you allways buzz the note in the center. Now I'm playing more and more tuba. I pull/ push (for those C's) the first slide all the time. I also pull the 2nd valve slide a lot (in easy reach on the 1291) for low B/ E. I'm not very good at lipping down, it just doesn't feel right....... On my 4 valve 1291 BBb the low EEb is not really an existing note. I have to lip it down....... The 2006 model of the Alan Baer G&W helped to make that note lipable (wasn't possible on other mpcs).

As an aside.... When the horn is cold it is flat and I can't play it in the center. It is awful that way. Last friday it was cold in the rehearsal room and I was flat all the time (maybe 20 cents??). My tone was not what it usually is, afterwards the 1st trumpet confirmed my feelings when he made a remark about that I 'hadn't my day' (if even a trumpet player notices ).

I pull the tuning slide on my old slant rotor Marzan out about that far for some notes, and for others have it in all the way (and it was built sharp to begin with...)

There is a relationship between the played (buzzed) note and the reinforcement pitch of the tubing. You want them to be close enough that you don't chip the note and have a good, resonant sound- that's what pulling is all about in the first place, not just shading the intonation.

If it makes you comfortable with your chops/horn/mouthpiece combination and allows you to make music, then who cares if you need to pull the slide out to seventh position!?

the elephant wrote:Right. The horn is a length of tubing. That length is specific at any time and will only properly sound a specific, narrow band of frequencies.

One of the things that has me curious is how narrow this band is, and how much that band of resonant frequencies changes with instrument. In other parts of the frequency domain, the discussion of how broadbanded a tuned apparatus is gets a lot of discussion. For example, a yagi radio antenna, which is a highly tuned, high-gain antenna, can be made more broadbanded by using fatter elements. And some yagi antennas are intentionally mistuned slightly (one or two of the elements are placed in positions not ideal for the resonant frequency) to make them more broadbanded. When doing so, the peak resonance is reduced somewhat, but the frequency band over which the resonance is acceptable is increased.

One qualified observer reported here that his brief playing the Jacobs York revealed the same sorts of intonation quirks as any big tuba might have, but that it could be lipped to correct pitch to a greater extent than most without degrading its tone. That suggests to me that the York was more broadbanded than the tubas that observer had experienced otherwise. I would think a tuba that permits an outstanding sound over a wider range of buzz frequencies would be highly desired by professionals who are capable of buzzing on pitch, because it would be more playable with less slide moving.

Those same pros seem to describe narrow-banded tubas a "stiff", apparently meaning that they cannot bend the pitches without an unacceptable loss of tone quality. Such tubas might require significant slide pulls to keep them at optimal tone when played on pitch.

I push my first slide in about two inches for the fifth-partial C, which is flat on the Holton. That makes it easier to make a resonant tone, to the extent that I'm able to, particularly at soft dynamics.

Rick "thinking fat tubas with large bores and wide bells provide a wider range of effective lengths, and therefore are more broadbanded" Denney