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I was reading in a doctoral thesis that playing Eb and F bass tubas is positive for advancing one's technical skills.

Tubenetters are now having a good discussion on compositions intending performance by either contrabass or bass tubas, in addition to the perpetual discussions on the merits and demerits of particular F tubas. I could use and would welcome the typical range of viewpoints. I might even buy my first F tuba and spend some time practicing.

Dean E wrote:I was reading in a doctoral thesis that playing Eb and F bass tubas is positive for advancing one's technical skills.

Tubenetters are now having a good discussion on compositions intending performance by either contrabass or bass tubas, in addition to the perpetual discussions on the merits and demerits of particular F tubas. I could use and would welcome the typical range of viewpoints. I might even buy my first F tuba and spend some time practicing.

Was that doctoral thesis written from dental, a neurological, a psychiatric, or an orthopaedic point of view?

Skills achieved elsewhere may be transferred to new situations. That sort of is what intelligence is about. Players trained to exact intonation and evenness over partials on the trombone surely have a benefit on valved low brasses. Maybe not in the execution, but certainly in realising that there at all might be something to work on in these fields. It may also be easier to develop fast tonguing on a smaller brass instrument. Legato is no harder on a contrabass tuba, as long as the air isn’t running out.

However the main reason for improvement rather would be found in the last half part of your last sentence.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Was that doctoral thesis written from dental, a neurological, a psychiatric, or an orthopaedic point of view? . . . .

Thanks for the insightful comments, Klaus.

The dissertation was for Doctor of Musical Arts at a U.S. University. There was a survey taken, which found that the issues considered in studying on bass tuba were sound, range, technical characteristics, and blending ability.

Dean E wrote:

Was that doctoral thesis written from dental, a neurological, a psychiatric, or an orthopaedic point of view? . . . .

Thanks for the insightful comments, Klaus.

The dissertation was for Doctor of Musical Arts at a U.S. University. There was a survey taken, which found that the issues considered in studying on bass tuba were sound, range, technical characteristics, and blending ability.

Gee, contrabass tubists don't study those things? Odd.

I don't have a music degree, so that's a straight question.

Since it sounds as though the thesis was based on a survey, there is no explanation of why playing a bass tuba might help with these technical skills.

I doubt that pitch of the tuba's fundamental has much to do with it.

I DON'T doubt that the F tuba comes along at the same time as some other important things in the player's life, including:

- More focus on the solo literature
- More focus on the high orchestral literature
- More seriousness about playing in general
- a transition from younger student to older student

That last point demands that the student, post-F-acquisition, has had more face time than the student before the acquisition.

I suspect that these four factors, if pursued with the same commitment, would result in the same benefits for players who stay with a contrabass and don't buy an F.

Even in my own experience, which is probably fairly unusual for a mostly untrained amateur, I added the F to my arsenal at a time when I was ready to commit to the music for which an F tuba is well suited. Nobody buys a F to play Prokofiev excerpts or Snedecor etudes. But when they do buy an F, they are excited about what the F can do, and thus motivated to spend time with Berlioz excerpts and the more challenging solo repertoire. That was true for me, even though most of that material will never be heard outside my practice room. Even now, when I pick up the F, I spend more time on higher lit than I do on the Bb. It probably should not be that way, but that's why I bought the F in the first place--to bring such literature more within reach.

In short, buy the F because it's fun to play, and that will mean more playing, which will mean more improvement. No brainer.

I wonder if British tuba players contemplate buying a C because it's fun to play, brings some lit more within reach, and motivates the performer to expand his practice regime to a broader array of music. I wonder if their DMA students will conduct a survey and discover that the C tuba provides a range of technical benefits. I suspect so.

Rick "wondering if DMA students know that proof of correlation demands an explanation of causality" Denney

I would say that adding any new tuba, be it F, or whatever, benefits by motivating one to practice more and thereby become a better player. If an F also provides other more subtle technical benefits, I do not know.

However, for British players adding a CC, I would say that playing on a big contrabass tuba most certainly benefits ones playing on the bass tuba. It improves ones control and breathing which are both more demanding and thereby makes the smaller tuba seem easier to play. When I got my Neptune, I soon noticed how it improved my Eb playing and the even larger Cerveny BBb has also benefited my Neptune playing (obviously I should get a 6/4 Rudy next!!! ).

I have heard that James Gourlay practices on a BBb tuba to improve his EEb playing in performance.

Rick Denney wrote: Rick "wondering if DMA students know that proof of correlation demands an explanation of causality" Denney

You nailed the major points, Rick, as always. Thanks.

The particular survey didn't have a large enough population to get within +/- 3% margin of error.

Dean E wrote:

Rick Denney wrote: Rick "wondering if DMA students know that proof of correlation demands an explanation of causality" Denney

You nailed the major points, Rick, as always. Thanks.

Yes, he did.

Somebody appears to be in the mood today.

K

I've never owned a bass tuba, although I got to toot on one for a bit while I was a student at Kansas. Undergraduates take note: I still feel like that mistake (not having experience on a bass tuba in undergraduate school), and that mistake alone, cost me a very good assistantship audition where everything was "clicking" for me and I continued to hear, "would you care to play that movement again on an F tuba?"

Technique and accuracy have never been problems for me...consistent sound quality and breath issues (lack of support, especially at ends of phrases, i.e. "learning to fill up") have been my battles. I can continue to fight those skirmishes regardless of the fundamental pitch of the tuba in my lap.

That said, I'll note again that rarely do fast fingers (technical skills?) win tuba auditions.

Admittedly anecdotal, but that's my two cents. I don't think just playing on a slightly higher-pitched instrument matters a fig toward the goal of making one a better tuba player. However, proficiency on a bass tuba is a (an unwritten?) "requirement" in the club of tuba professionals.

tubashaman wrote:Todd, which Contrabass tuba do you play on

The school here has a pretty nice Miraphone 188 that I am able to use when needed (only one player at the school plays C tuba and he has his own horn). It's actually the same horn I used when I was an undergraduate here (the hard case is still completely trashed from a Wind Ensemble airline trip to Canada). 99.95% of my work these days is on piano, anyway.

While at Kansas, I played mostly on one of the schools Yamahas (YCB-621, I think). I really miss that horn and always thought it had a great "all-around" sound far superior to the Miraphone I had previously used. Jarrod Williams was there at the time and was kind enough to let me play his Yamaha F for wind ensemble and some solo studies.

tubashaman wrote:the way you make it sound I should audition at Kansas

I couldn't agree more...great school, fantastic teacher in Scott Watson, and very successful professional job placement rates in the last decade or so.