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My concert band is doing an increasing number of marching, or standing gigs. I currently use my Neptune 6/4 CC for sit down concerts and an old Haag 3 valve Eb for the standing/marching gigs.

However, this is not really satisfactory in that it means I often rehearse on CC, to then play the gig on Eb and also the 3 valve Eb's range is rather too limited to properly play much of the music.

I would therefore be interested in finding a relatively light rotary CC for playing the marching/standing gigs. I did previous play a B&S PT-20 4/4, but that was built like a tank and therefore too heavy for me to hold for prolonged periods without back pain, as well as being ergonomically poor to play standing.

Any suggestions for any suitable models? I wondered about a Cerveny CCB-686? The trouble is, I have no opportunity to play one to find out.

Neptune wrote:not really satisfactory in that it means I often rehearse on CC, to then play the gig on Eb

I am really only considering CC

Bob1062 wrote:Are you using a strap or harness of some sort? You should be!

Yes Bob, I use a strap, but the weight on my back for what may be a couple hours standing can be a problem

pejaberg wrote:Have you seen the post on the mini travel F tuba? Too small?

Definitely too small! I am often bass to a 40-50 piece band alone.

The Yamaha 621 CC, or the Weril copy, are both pretty light.

There's a Weril for sale here:

http://www.oberloh.com/sales/sales.htm" target="_blank

I would seriously look at the MW-Hojo in one of it's various configurations. Good size, great valves, albeit with a not-so-nice price. Should do a good job of supporting your band.

Chuck

OOPS- You wanted a CC. Mirafone's have carrying strap ligatures and aren't real heavy. AND you can buy them sight unseen and almost be garaunteed a winner. a 186 5U-CC should serve you well.

I've been looking for something similar myself. I have a Mira 184 and find even that to be a bit much for standing for too long.

Neptune wrote: I wondered about a Cerveny CCB-686? The trouble is, I have no opportunity to play one to find out.

What about the Cerveny CCB-683/ACB-483? They seem even smaller/lighter, but I, too, haven't had the opportunity to play one. I'd be interested to hear more about those from anyone here familiar with them.

Second on the Weril... definitely little, very light, sounds good too. I ended up standing an entire TubaChristmas and wouldn't have been able to move for a week or so if I'd taken anything larger.

I'm really curious about the Josef Lidl 701 at Hornguys.com. Has anyone tried one of these yet?

Their description even says:

Made in the Czech Republic, this is an excellent first tuba for the student who prefers the ergonomics of a medium size horn, or for the jobbing player needing a smaller BBb tuba for pit orchestra, chamber music, or stand-up work

OK. I'll jump in also: if you don't want to carry around a 186 or a piggy with a holster, try a Lidl.

bloke wrote:Somebody has money burning a hole in their pocket.

bloke graps the core of the problem and exposes it!

The whole thinking is wrong. Often being the lone bass in a wind band puts one in a formidable bargain position: give me a chair to sit on inside the half-moon formation - next to the trap set.

The small band I played in last had taken this approach long before I joined it. Being the swing man on euph, trombone, and tuba I also got a chair playing the smaller ones, when it was necessary due to my increasing hip problems.

And the idea of a smaller tuba than the BAT is wrong alone from a musical point of view. If any ensemble needs the Neptune category of tuba to lay down the foundation, then the medium large wind band with only one tubist.

Klaus

circusboy wrote:What about the Cerveny CCB-683/ACB-483? They seem even smaller/lighter, but I, too, haven't had the opportunity to play one. I'd be interested to hear more about those from anyone here familiar with them.

Has anyone tried playing one of these strapped for marching/standing? They are no doubt light, but I wonder about the compact configuration ergonomically when standing (due to my experience with the PT-20)

the elephant wrote:The Alexander 163 is very light

I do like the idea of one of those!

bloke wrote:Somebody has money burning a hole in their pocket.

Alas, my days of having "money burning a hole" in my pocket have passed. I am not about to rush out and buy anything new. It would in any case be too likely to suffer damage with this use. I will await to find a suitable used tuba for sale, so am at this stage just research what may be suitable.

imperialbari wrote:give me a chair to sit on inside the half-moon formation

Nice idea, but no good with the band in march formation as is usually the case (we are talking about a military style band)

only problem with that belt, at first glance, is that my Weril is too short for that. I have to hold it higher than that when I play.
Now, maybe it's due to excessive width (me, not the tuba!), but that could be an issue either way, the tuba is either too high or too low.
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and, I'd sure recommend the Weril 681, except it's pretty small and doesn't handle a whole lot of volume. A 40-50 piece band may be too much for it.
In that case, give a Piggy a good test. A GOOD test, don't buy it unplayed by you.

bort wrote:I'm really curious about the Josef Lidl 701 at Hornguys.com. Has anyone tried one of these yet?

Their description even says:

Made in the Czech Republic, this is an excellent first tuba for the student who prefers the ergonomics of a medium size horn, or for the jobbing player needing a smaller BBb tuba for pit orchestra, chamber music, or stand-up work

I'll stand behind the Lidl for this type of work. The piggy would work fine, too, I think.

A 184 4 v weighs in at just over a stone. The 5 valve would probably go 1 1/4. However the 186 is only a couple pounds heavier and puts out a great deal more sound. I've played a Lidl and although it is a nice little tuba. It is just that though, a nice LITTLE tuba. The 184 sounds bigger IMHO. If you are going to be outdoors, why not a CC helicon?

tbn.al wrote:If you are going to be outdoors, why not a CC helicon?

Are such made? I have only ever heard of 'Bloke's special CC helicon. They are not listed in CC on the Cerveny site.

My vote (sorry - bad pun) would be for the Cerveny CC Piggy. Being an owner of one of these I can attest that they play much bigger than they look and the older ones are quite light. I believe that they were using a thinner brass in the earlier days. Tuning is good, but I would still recommend a strap or harness for playing uit standing up.

Just my $0.02.

Roger

Not to quibble with you, Jonathan, but your criteria seriously limit your choices, and greatly impact the cost as well. There are all kinds of older piston and rotary BBb's in the size range these days, and a number of piston CCs. To my thinking some Conn 3Js are really terrific. And those little Olds 99's often come up at near-steal prices.

Having both a 186 and a 184, I find the 184 extremely manageable in comparison (although for full disclosure the 186 is a BBb). The 184 is edgier earlier on the volume curve though.

bort wrote:I'm really curious about the Josef Lidl 701 at Hornguys.com. Has anyone tried one of these yet?

Their description even says:

Made in the Czech Republic, this is an excellent first tuba for the student who prefers the ergonomics of a medium size horn, or for the jobbing player needing a smaller BBb tuba for pit orchestra, chamber music, or stand-up work

With great hope in my heart, I tried the Lidl at Hornguys last week--only to be disappointed. The sound was quite small (especially in the low range), even compared to my 184. Intonation seemed fine, and it was certainly light and small. I also found the orientation of the mouthpipe to be strange; it came around too far, causing me to hold the horn at an odd angle away from my body, though I suppose that could be adjusted.

Neptune wrote:

tbn.al wrote:If you are going to be outdoors, why not a CC helicon?

Are such made? I have only ever heard of 'Bloke's special CC helicon. They are not listed in CC on the Cerveny site.

I do suppose you have to contact "the bloke" about that. If he made one he could make another. After all 'twas he who first mentioned "money burning holes" or something to that effect. Maybe that was an offer?